Lets get it out of the way: MPG

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

vw jetta turbo diesel gets around 50 mpg and with a stick will out last just about anything .

You may be right, but there isn't many shops around that are german specialicist that can also work diesel. At least not with in a normal price range.

I plan on keeping my Alti. I had a 88 maxima before that had 320,000 miles on it and we donated it and it drove to the donation place w/o a problem. They are strong cars, especially if they are well taken care of properly maintained.

[jnhalstead]

look at the reviews online comparing the smart car to the versa where the versa actually gets better mpg

[jimnolimit]

Originally Posted by madsen203

You may be right, but there isn't many shops around that are german specialicist that can also work diesel. At least not with in a normal price range.

absolutely , but there are very few things that can go wrong with a diesel engine

p.s. you are going to see alot more diesels on the road in 2009 .

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

absolutely , but there are very few things that can go wrong with a diesel engine

p.s. you are going to see alot more diesels on the road in 2009 .

The US gov't is putting restrictions on the diesels that come into the US from europe to prevent companies like chevron from getting furious. They have many cars in europe that are diesels that get anywhere from 60 to 100 miles per gallon... The us corporate companies are putting restrictions on them limiting them to 55mpg so people will still buy our sh*tty american GM vehicles.

Did you guys know, that if you bough a Hummer H2 that you are elgible for a $50,000 tax write off? How rediculous is that. You can get that substaintial writeoff for a car that gets 10mpg hwy and for a car like the prius you only get a 1300 write off... makes you think... who is backing the gov't decissions and allowing this to happen? EXACTLY. Wouldn't our gov't want to "go green," but instead they are encouraging heavy fosil fuel useage and a large polluter like the hummer?

Out in CA, there are quite a few hummers around.. They have a rather small interior, NOONE ever takes them off road (who would want to take a 60.000 dollar car in the mud and f it up?) and there is never more than three people in one at once.

THere is something very wrong with our capitalist system that is allowing gov't to make this happen.

With oil prices hitting 129 today, you'd think someone would be promoting hybrids or better yet, full electric. Instead we BUILD F'N HYBRID SUV'S!!!! AND WORST OF ALL PEOPLE BUY THEM!!!!

[jimnolimit]

^^^ yes sir thats correct .

diesel fuel has always been cheaper than gas and look what happened now , its more expensive , so at the end of the day if you want to get more mpg each gallon will cost you more . just to tell you a vw polo in germany gets about 75 mpg , a diesel with stick shift is dam near indestructible . i wonder why car companies don't hybrid diesels ? but im not a fan of hybrids because your using 2 power systems to drive one car , you can achieve near hybrid mpg with out the added weight of the electric motor and battery pack .

p.s. a hybrid suburban (which is stupid IMO) gets about 21 mpg combined , a chevy 2500 diesel pick-up truck gets about 19 mpg combined and has about 660 lbs/ft TQ !!!

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

^^^ yes sir thats correct .

diesel fuel has always been cheaper than gas and look what happened now , its more expensive , so at the end of the day if you want to get more mpg each gallon will cost more making you pay about the same . just to tell you a vw polo in germany gets about 75 mpg , a diesel with stick shift is dam near indestructible . i wonder why car companies don't hybrid diesels ? but im not a fan of hybrids because your using 2 power systems to drive one car , you can achieve near hybrid mpg with out the added weight of the electric motor and battery pack .

p.s. a hybrid suburban (which is stupid IMO) gets about 21 mpg combined , a chevy 2500 diesel pick-up truck gets about 19 mpg combined and has about 660 lbs/ft TQ !!!

On top of the hybrid factor... if the battery gets damaged in an accident, they have to call a HazMat team out to dispose of car properly.

It is true about the diesels being industructable... they will keep on moving... they get worse and worse for pollution wise, but I sure that could be an easy fix by replacing the cats once every five years or so.

A hybrid that gets 21mpg observed... that puts the name "hybrid" to shame no matter how good or bad it is. Diesels and full electric is the way to go. IF you have a diesel, get the Red dye diesel fuel from air ports and it is really cheap, although illegal to have in your truck/car.

In general, its a pretty f'd up system that we have. We are running out of fuel from the ground, so we should start moving towards electric... cost less to run those and then people wouldn't be putting in mods that deteriate gas mileage as they would only put in mods to extend batt life. Therefore, better for our economy.


PS: Global warming is a scam. But running out of fossil fuel is not.

[jimnolimit]

the price of oil in the US is a scam !!! consumption is slightly down this year and supply is slightly up , greed is at work , there is no shortage of oil in the US , what there are is wall street speculators driving the price up , for every 1 speculator saying the price will go down there are 4 speculators saying it will go up , this makes 4 buyers for every one seller on paper but supply and demand is close to balance in actuality . its a big circle jerk and americans are in the middle

[aerojar]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

the price of oil in the US is a scam !!! consumption is slightly down this year and supply is slightly up , greed is at work , there is no shortage of oil in the US , what there are is wall street speculators driving the price up , for every 1 speculator saying the price will go down there are 4 speculators saying it will go up , this makes 4 buyers for every one seller on paper but supply and demand is close to balance in actuality . its a big circle jerk and americans are in the middle

Right on. Unfortunately unless we fix the greed of the entire system, we will be right here having the same conversation about the price of electricity in a few years. Unless we build more nuclear facilities or get a fusion reactor going, we are only shifting the pollutants back to the coal-fired or natural gas fired powerplants which will have to increase capacity to help offset all the plug-in vehicles. Hybrids are a good idea, but diesels are more efficent (all things considered) and can be made to have very clean tailpipe emissions. The problem is that people (up until the year) are still buying SUV's regardless of the gas prices and manufacturers have not the incentive to build something else.

Here is a link to some interesting articles about how a Hummer actually uses less energy overall and if more environmentally friendly than a Prius when you look at the entire life-cycle of the auto. I saw one that was even more in depth with some actual quantified numbers about even considering the power used by the Toyota plant where they are built...decide for yourself.

Reason Foundation Commentary: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today?
The Recorder

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by aerojar

Right on. Unfortunately unless we fix the greed of the entire system, we will be right here having the same conversation about the price of electricity in a few years. Unless we build more nuclear facilities or get a fusion reactor going, we are only shifting the pollutants back to the coal-fired or natural gas fired powerplants which will have to increase capacity to help offset all the plug-in vehicles. Hybrids are a good idea, but diesels are more efficent (all things considered) and can be made to have very clean tailpipe emissions. The problem is that people (up until the year) are still buying SUV's regardless of the gas prices and manufacturers have not the incentive to build something else.

Here is a link to some interesting articles about how a Hummer actually uses less energy overall and if more environmentally friendly than a Prius when you look at the entire life-cycle of the auto. I saw one that was even more in depth with some actual quantified numbers about even considering the power used by the Toyota plant where they are built...decide for yourself.

Reason Foundation Commentary: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today?
The Recorder

You are right that it would suck more energy from the coal power plants... BUT there is a catch... If you charge your car after 7pm, there is plenty of energy.

SO it works like this.. PG&E (or who ever your power provider is) has to generate enough energy to occupy the max useage for americans betweens the hours of noon and 3pm. After that, there is an excess of energy not used and it disapates into wasted energy, therefore a waste of power... NOw if we had electric cars, PG&e could still keep their numbers and at night, where there isn't such a stress for energy, people could charge their cars. Therefore, it is not making power plants increase energy output.

YES, it is true that a prius is "dirtier" than a hummer, and if you look at it, people are more likely to drive a prius more miles/week because they "get better gas mileage" and will have a surplus of money to spend on EXTRA gas. Someone with a hummer will take in to consideration that gas is pricey and that they can't afford to drive to the supermarket an extra day of the week. Therefore, Prius owners are using more gas to make up for the gas they saved.

We live in a capitalist government style that has the top "one %" (the extreme wealthy, and all so powerfull, companies like GE (who makes our military weapons) Time Warner (CBS controls the media) and other people) that can buy the gov't in decisions that favor them, not the average middle class american.

I wrote a thesis paper on this and am fully aware of the sh*t that is going on in america today.

Maybe if someone can read this, they can pass it on to someone else, and then people will be knowlegeable.

(Electric cars have a novelty, therefore will cost a fourtune to buy..Not to make. THe tesla, a new electric sports car, can be mass produced for a fair amount of buck, but they are selling them for 100K because they know people have to pay for them..) Watch the movie "Who killed the electric car"... it will show you that our state, and national gov't is heavily influenced by those with money and power.

Mike Madsen

[wizard8873]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

^^^ yes sir thats correct .

diesel fuel has always been cheaper than gas and look what happened now , its more expensive , so at the end of the day if you want to get more mpg each gallon will cost more making you pay about the same . just to tell you a vw polo in germany gets about 75 mpg , a diesel with stick shift is dam near indestructible . i wonder why car companies don't hybrid diesels ? but im not a fan of hybrids because your using 2 power systems to drive one car , you can achieve near hybrid mpg with out the added weight of the electric motor and battery pack .

p.s. a hybrid suburban (which is stupid IMO) gets about 21 mpg combined , a chevy 2500 diesel pick-up truck gets about 19 mpg combined and has about 660 lbs/ft TQ !!!

diesel is more expensive per gallon. it's still cheaper per mile. i did the calc a bit ago reading an article on motortrend where the A4 they tested got 34mpg and averaged 83mph. the best mpg i got city was 23mpg. with gas at 4.09 and diesel at 4.59, it came out to about 17.8 cents per mile for gas and about 13.5 cents per mile for diesel and that's with flooring it. if you can get 40 mpg on a diesel, it would come out to about 11.5 cents per mile.

[jimnolimit]

^^^ correct , i'll edit out the post , my point being if you are going to save gas there going to make you pay more for each gallon but diesel still wins . im a big fan of diesel (im not a fan of hybrid) , diesel is an efficient durable proven technology . IMO they raised diesel fuel prices now because in 2009 there will be alot more new cars offering it .

diesel prices in nyc are around $4.75-$4.90 and regular is around $4.00

[StinkyCheese]

Whoah. politics.

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

^^^ correct , i'll edit out the post , my point being if you are going to save gas there going to make you pay more for each gallon but diesel still wins . im a big fan of diesel (im not a fan of hybrid) , diesel is an efficient durable proven technology . IMO they raised diesel fuel prices now because in 2009 there will be alot more new cars offering it .

diesel prices in nyc are around $4.75-$4.90 and regular is around $4.00

Diesel in bay area is around the same price.... I think they were able to raise it so easily as the truckers that have 3-400 gallon tanks in their big rigs need it. That is one of america's main shipping techniques. Therefore, lets screw the people that use it the most. That 400 gallons only gets them half way accross the states too.. so to do a round trip (NYC to SF) would cost them 1600 gallons... And that is what they mainly do.

With the CAFE restrictions that the US gov't is enforcing, it is going to be hard to make/bring in diesels into the US. Has any one looked at the standards for mpg across the globe? THe us is near the bottom for trying to accomplish mpg. They are expecting by 2025 that the cars will average 25-29mpg, when we could easily get past that moving to different technology. Europe complains about getting 50-60mpg in cars... we complain about getting 15mpg. Who should really be concerned? US or Europe?

[madsen203]

Originally Posted by StinkyCheese

Whoah. politics.

WOah.. it is something that sould be talked about so people are so damn ignorant. If people know what is going on, then maybe we can be a democratic society and prevent this from happening again and again.


Its serious sh*t. If we don't do something about it now, it could be too late. With China wanting to have the same lifestyle as us, they are going to be consuming mass amounts of oil/energy.. depleating the earth as much as us. We need to make a change.

I agree with the guy above... Nuclear energy is the way to go. In CAlifornia, we are closing down more and more of our nuclear plants i nthe fear that they may "explode." But if maintained properly by people who know what tehy are doing, we can succeed in nuclear power like France has. Yes, there is the problem that they could potentially blow up, but the only reason they would is because of negligence. We need to have strict policies about the people who work in them and build them. No lazy contractors!!!

Mike Madsen

[jimnolimit]

vw , bmw , mercedes are all coming out multiple diesel models for 2009 . look into it , all the new diesel's will be very clean and meet CAFE regulations .