Since being retired, I spend ALOT of time visiting people and emailing people that know more than I Like the pros. I talk with Ben from JWT alot as well as a few people from Titan Motorsports here in Florida. My father, when he was alive, was a master mechanic. He could rebuild an engine almost in his sleep. I would always ask him questions and always hang out at the garage to learn new stuff. There are a few, literally, members on here that I have tested to see if they really know what they are talking about. The best advice I can give anyone is to fricken educate yourself about how engines work. Get in good with an engine builder, not an engine repair guy. Toss business his way, but also ask to learn. If you educate yourself with all sorts of info, you will be much better prepared to actually know what it is that you are doing. By over porting I mean taking too much material out of the head. When this happens you have effectively destroyed the head. You have to know flow characteristics even before you begin porting, WHICH is why I dont shade tree port things like heads or bore my own block. I leave it to the pros, BUT I read about and ask many questions. I have lots of theory about porting for performance but I have no way to measure the before or after flow, so I wouldnt know when enough is, well, enough. If you are really into this, not just this car, take a course on building engines. Its what I am about to do. Sure I can take it apart and put it back, but I wanna learn a more priviledged aspect of engine building. I have nothing but time and I love learning how component work with or against each other. For instance, to increase tq, which in many ways IS more important/meaningful than hp, you simply MUST increase how DEEP the engine breathes. Well to do this, you MUST remove the restrictions that impede air flow, BUT never forget more air means the need for more fuel, which in turn means the need for a stronger spark....hence hp and tq is derived. I know thats a lil simplified, but you get it, right? lol. Just because you "dont need to" perform head work to get the new cams installed surely DOESNT mean there isnt a benefit to having it done. The fact of the matter is that it DOES make a substantial difference. IF you have the money, why leave hp and tq on the table?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeds
Thanks for the advice, Aaron. My new exhaust setup will be based on what these cams do sound wise to what I have now. It will definitely start with ditching the HFPC's and get the SFR Headers. I was actually trying to use this as an example to understand how Lawrence choses the right complimentary parts. Like when he said something about porting the holes too big. How do you know exactly how big to port??
UpRev charges around $800 for the first tune bc they have to download my ECU. After that I think it's only a couple hundred $$ for each tune. Pretty sure this includes the dyno as well. I'm hoping to go to a friend of a friends shop and dyno before I do the cam install.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways the Seven
+1 Lawrence. Good post. And yeah Steeds, the M isn't going anywhere. I love this car WAAAAY too much.
Yea Lawrence. Thanks for taking the time to write that. Good stuff.
Well Good Luck on your endeavor, I don't mean to jack your thread but I didn't want to start another one as well because I got some questions also, I did my stage 2 cam install and no I'm not sure that my car is working to its full potential, but when you talk to people and ask you get so many different answers you wanna . #1 are the shims - do they need to be changed? #2 do you degree a cam with a vvti? #3 just installing cams -are you going to see a big difference in hp?
Also are you trying to do this with the engine in the car or are you gonna drop the engine? I did mine inside it was a lot of screaming and kicking and but it's possible and also idk if you care about the looks of your engine bay but I did powder coat pretty much all of the parts for $500. Just fyi.
Well Good Luck on your endeavor, I don't mean to jack your thread but I didn't want to start another one as well because I got some questions also, I did my stage 2 cam install and no I'm not sure that my car is working to its full potential, but when you talk to people and ask you get so many different answers you wanna . #1 are the shims - do they need to be changed? #2 do you degree a cam with a vvti? #3 just installing cams -are you going to see a big difference in hp?
Also are you trying to do this with the engine in the car or are you gonna drop the engine? I did mine inside it was a lot of screaming and kicking and but it's possible and also idk if you care about the looks of your engine bay but I did powder coat pretty much all of the parts for $500. Just fyi.
1. How big are your cams, what degree and lift? What brand? Better valve springs and shims are always a good idea when you get a bigger cam then stock for added saftey, especially if you plan to rev the car higher then 6600.
2. No, you like up the timing marks, the vvti is electronically controlled so you cant adjust it without adjustable cam gears to set the position
3. you will get maybe 15whp gains, a little more with a tune and other supporting breather mods, again depends on the cam's lift and duration. Like exhaust, intake ect.
@tuko, if i did cams again, id do them in the car before pulling the motor if that was the only thing i was doing.
Not true or needed. Misconception about powder coating is that it takes forever. In reality, powder coating is by far the best method of applying color/protection at the same time. Powder coating is comprised of basically 3 steps (but you need the right equipment)
1. Clean part to absolute bare metal
2. Coat parts with powder
3. Cure coated part.
Cleaning is 95% of powder coating sucess. The other 5% is the fun part, spraying.
The whole process is started and completed the same day.
After cleaning the part and shooting it with powder, it is then placed in a curing oven @400 degrees. At the 1st sign of flow out, which occurs at 180degrees), roughly 10-15 mins, you set your timer for 20 mins and simply allow the part to reach and hold the cure temp of 400 degrees for 20 mins. Total cure time is 30 mins. After part cools naturally, it can then be placed back in service. I love powder coating. I look back at all the metal parts I ever painted and thought to myself, "what a waste of time". Powder coating is by far my favorite mod. Offers the most dramatic effect, especially when your not expecting a suprise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUKO
Which stage 2 cams?
How long did it take you? You must have a ton of patience to also have everything powder coated. Good job.
.... This, BUT whenever you get cams installed you def want/need a tune. More air in/out means a need for a tune to capitalize on the new hardware.To get the most out of cams you do need to have other basic supporting mods, I/H/E(or HFCs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05SickSer
1. How big are your cams, what degree and lift? What brand? Better valve springs and shims are always a good idea when you get a bigger cam then stock for added saftey, especially if you plan to rev the car higher then 6600.
2. No, you like up the timing marks, the vvti is electronically controlled so you cant adjust it without adjustable cam gears to set the position
3. you will get maybe 15whp gains, a little more with a tune and other supporting breather mods, again depends on the cam's lift and duration. Like exhaust, intake ect.
@tuko, if i did cams again, id do them in the car before pulling the motor if that was the only thing i was doing.
How long did it take you? You must have a ton of patience to also have everything powder coated. Good job.
Brian Crower.
It took me about 2 days to take it apart and 3 days to put everything together. Then biggest 2 problems I had were the crank pulley bolt and forgetting the o-ring behind the rear timing cover, I'm also not that experienced so that's another thing. Powder Coating took 5 days total, but I think it was worth it. Thanks.
5 days!? lol What all did you powder coat? From the pics you can just make out that you powder coated the front/rear timing cover, lower IM, and I would guess the upper IM and elbow. Valve covers would have to be painted right, UNLESS you have found and are using some of the new low cure heat resin powders. Did you do the powder coating or have it done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt939
Brian Crower.
It took me about 2 days to take it apart and 3 days to put everything together. Then biggest 2 problems I had were the crank pulley bolt and forgetting the o-ring behind the rear timing cover, I'm also not that experienced so that's another thing. Powder Coating took 5 days total, but I think it was worth it. Thanks.
1. How big are your cams, what degree and lift? What brand? Better valve springs and shims are always a good idea when you get a bigger cam then stock for added saftey, especially if you plan to rev the car higher then 6600.
2. No, you like up the timing marks, the vvti is electronically controlled so you cant adjust it without adjustable cam gears to set the position
3. you will get maybe 15whp gains, a little more with a tune and other supporting breather mods, again depends on the cam's lift and duration. Like exhaust, intake ect.
@tuko, if i did cams again, id do them in the car before pulling the motor if that was the only thing i was doing.
So do I remove those vvti gears and get adjustable ones?
As far as modifications
Headers + 2" straight dual pipes with 36" resonators, 1 3/4" x Pipe and Twin loop mufflers, Kinetix Intake Manifold with Spacers, and uprev tune cable (this is the awesome as you can do pretty much anything with the software)
I dynoed my car when only mod was a cold intake, and melted down cats, my car did 242whp, after I spent a whole bunch of time and a tune Now I got 253whp with all the mods listed is there something I didn't do correctly?
5 days!? lol What all did you powder coat? From the pics you can just make out that you powder coated the front/rear timing cover, lower IM, and I would guess the upper IM and elbow. Valve covers would have to be painted right, UNLESS you have found and are using some of the new low cure heat resin powders. Did you do the powder coating or have it done?
They were having hiccups with the oven, but they were cleaning all the parts.
I'm sorry but that was an old pic I will take one here a little and put it up, I did powder coat everything including the valve covers because I had extra one laying around the guy even coated the oil cap lol. I had them coat Both timing covers, valve covers both intakes plus my cold air intake, battery holder the metal part, the side engine mount strut bar and a few more little pieces to dress up the car my whole list was consisting of 31 parts. But I'm not embarrassed to open my hood now lol.
Well, I think it looks awesome! BTW i will be the first to tell you that the Kinetix IM is holding you back. Do a search and read up on how most saw no gains whatsoever from this, and a few actually loss a lil hp. Oh, leave the VVTI actuators alone, lol, they arent hurting you. You dont need adjustable gears with this motor. Wish we also had VVT on the exhaust side rather than just on the intake side.
Well, I think it looks awesome! BTW i will be the first to tell you that the Kinetix IM is holding you back. Do a search and read up on how most saw no gains whatsoever from this, and a few actually loss a lil hp. Oh, leave the VVTI actuators alone, lol, they arent hurting you. You dont need adjustable gears with this motor. Wish we also had VVT on the exhaust side rather than just on the intake side.
I agree about the vvti for exhaust. I don't know about the Kinetix I've heard both of sides of the story but I got it for the nos. I just don't understand how with all these mods I gained only 10 whp. My thought I didn't install the cams correctly.
Very nice. A lil too much red for me but man this is a sight for sore eyes. Lots of other car owners take the time to really dress up the engine bay, but most of the asses on here dont. lol As far as low numbers, who did the tune, you or Uprev, What are your AFRs?, are you sure the tune took? I know you may have mentioned, but do you have headers or are you still running the stock ones? With cams the only thing you could have wrong are the shims. If you didnt measure for correct shimming, you could be a lil "flat" but the only way to fix that is to open it back up and check for endplay/shim values. On a dyno, however, this would have shown up though, so im not entirely sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt939
I agree about the vvti for exhaust. I don't know about the Kinetix I've heard both of sides of the story but I got it for the nos. I just don't understand how with all these mods I gained only 10 whp. My thought I didn't install the cams correctly.
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
. My new exhaust setup will be based on what these cams do sound wise to what I have now. It will definitely start with ditching the HFPC's and get the SFR Headers. I was actually trying to use this as an example to understand how Lawrence choses the right complimentary parts. Like when he said something about porting the holes too big. How do you know exactly how big to port??
. #1 are the shims - do they need to be changed? #2 do you degree a cam with a vvti? #3 just installing cams -are you going to see a big difference in hp? 
Linear Mode
