I'm sorry I have to take offense to that esp. coming from a Honda/Ac owner.
I used to drive a Maxima, until it crapped out. Nissan offers good performance, but Honda stuff is better made, from someone w/ 300K+ miles behind the wheel of both companies' products. I guess I'll just have to live in the upper part of the rev range to beat Nissans.
Anyhow, the Altima is Nissan's ricer darling.
All the kids whose mommies and daddies didn't buy a slow Accord for them to pass down get stuck w/ a slow Altima to rice out.
Want to talk Nissan performance to me?
Better have a six and a stick.
Nissan's fours still don't have what it takes to compete w/ Honda, no matter what they've punched them out to.
The wheel horsepower of the Senta SE-R spec V is still less than a GSR. Kudos for the LSD and 6-spd, though.
As to those who consider my point on brakes invalid b/c of the cheap shot I took against Altima owners, I guess it hit close to home, y0!!!
Well, this is where I got my facts, and you wanted me to post facts. You are talking about one rotor which you showed, and I've seen rotors much more expensive disintegrate.
Defense has the ball (what the **** is this, football)??
Originally posted by NissanLunatic Courtesy of Brembo: "At the Sport level, an end user can find both an introductory performance solution combined with an appealing aesthetic application. The Sport level is comprised of a 1-piece drilled or slotted and solid or vented rotors, according to your original manufacturers requirements and a complete set of performance pads. "-----let me guess, Brembo doesn't know shit, and you three clowns should call them and tell them to stop using crossdrilled/slotted rotors, as you all have pointed out, suck....
That's easy. See the quote on the previous page: "You are convinced you are right and you will never believe anything different."
Everybody here who has refuted your claims drives their cars in competition. The key words are "drives" and "competition." Not "sell" and "make money off people who don't know any better."
Here is a list of shops that are interested in performance:
They race and sell parts. Not bling-bling -- I'm talking about true automobile performance; about getting the most out of their vehicles. Call them. Tell me what their response is when you say you want to buy some cross-drilled rotors because they will make your car brake better. More than likely, they will laugh out loud or chuckle to themselves. I know the first shop will gladly sell you cheaper and non cross-drilled rotors over more expen$ive cross-drilled rotors.
So if you're lurking and have waded through this so far, ask yourself these questions:
1) Do I want to go fast (and have a couple bucks left over for beers)?
2) Do I want to rEpReSeNt WiTh AlL mY pEePs?
__________________
Pat
'00 Ford Lightning
'90 Formula WS6 (305 TPI), STX autox car
'91 Sentra SE-R, ITS roadrace car
Looks like advertisement propaganda to me. Nothing more.
What I want:
Back to back tests with standard, cross drilled, and crossdrilled/slotted.
The tests: 60-0 braking, 10 stops, averaged.
Peak temperature: tested immediately after the 10th stop (but we must be sure the time between each stop is consitent to be fair to all the rotors)
Cooling rate: temperature of rotor taken every minute for 15-20 minutes after the 10th stop.
Tests *MUST* be on the same car, with the same brake pads, on the same day on the same surface with the same wheels and tires.
Then, I will be happy. And not a minute sooner.
If you can't get the info, I would be happy to get it for you. I have access to a '97 Altima with standard rotors. I have access to the testing equiptment (I assume a G-tech is sufficient, as well as an infrared pyrometer). I can gain access to one of the autocross sites my club uses (old airport runways) for the test site. Anyone want to pony up a donor set of x-drilled for the test? How about you Nissanlunatic? I'll ship them back afterwards, if you trust me that is.
Cobra, this is truly my last post, I cannot waste any more time with you. Here is my final point, with which you just posted
"Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors. "----
YOU RIGHT THERE SUPPORTED MY CLAIM...., daily driving is not severe usage, you blind old bat, read your post again.
Done. This is why people should buy crossdrilled and slotted rotors.
Originally posted by NissanLunatic "-----let me guess, Brembo doesn't know shit, and you three clowns should call them and tell them to stop using crossdrilled/slotted rotors, as you all have pointed out, suck....
this is so very pointless. do you guys realize how many other variables come along with the brake discussion? rotors are only 1 part of the braking system. remember there are pads, brake lines, brake fluid, etc etc etc.
brakes not only will fade because of worn pads, super heated rotors...but also boiling fluid in non-reinforced lines. porsche has almost UN-arguably the best braking system on any manufactured car...hands down no questions asked. they in all likelyhood will continue to use and develop their braking system in conjunction with brembo.
on the topic of x-drilled rotors cracking...yeah it can happen. i have personally never seen any of them cracked. but think about what could cause them to crack...being crossdrilled? possibly. the brake system not being broken in properly? quite possibly. resurfaced a few too many times/not with safe specs? possibly.
my point is that this arguement will go know where for a number of reasons...
1- too many variables to come down to a final decision
2- different manufacturers make different quality products
3- the user has a HUGE role in how well or how not so well something works!
4- this is the internet....
__________________
rockin' the double M's
Mahdavi Motorsports 770-923-1550
Porsche used cross-drilled rotors with mixed success. The Zimmerman rotors used on the 930 Turbo brakes were very soft and crack prone, even though the holes were chamfered. The later Brembo rotors will also show some wear when used with most performance brake pads. Some of the best rotors in the world are made in Britain by AP and Alcon. Those rotors, when properly adapted, seem to be superior to the Brembo ones in terms of wear and crack resistance. All drilled rotors will crack sooner or later if overheated. Slotted rotors are more durable in this regard however they are heavier. One reason that most large iron rotors are cross-drilled is to save some unsprung weight. Since nice big, light, carbon rotors cost $1000 each, saving some weight without bankruptcy, is important. Plus, carbon rotors possess very little friction until they reach 500-600 degrees F.
Lunatic - Notice the talk about cracking and fatigue? When are you going to address that issue big guy? Are you just going to avoid it because YOU KNOW that was my point from the beginning and you cannot answer it?
At the heart of the new technology is a ceramic brake disc made of specially treated carbon fiber silicated in a high-vacuum process at approximately 1,700º C. The PCCB disc is cross-drilled and internally vented, and is approximately 50% lighter than conventional alternatives. Since this weight is unsprung, i.e., not supported by the suspension, PCCB automatically improves agility and handling.
Another feature of the system is the innovative new composite brake pad, which combines with the ceramic disc to deliver extremely high and constant levels of friction under braking. By replacing conventional metal components with composite pads and discs, temperature is no longer a factor in brake performance. This configuration not only helps minimise braking distances — particularly under heavy use — it also ensures safer deceleration from high speed as well as optimum resistance to brake fade.
Notice how the materials used negate the strength issues caused by the drilling. This is something I eluded to earlier as well.
The system features four-piston monobloc aluminium fixed caliper brakes at front and rear. Monobloc brakes consist of one-piece calipers, which are stiffer, weigh less and offer better braking, even under heavy use. For the driver, the immediate benefits are faster grip and release. Pedal travel is short and braking easy to modulate. Discs are cross-drilled to enhance braking in the wet. The brakes respond faster because the water vapour pressure that builds up during braking can be released more easily.
I don't see anywhere in that paragraph how the drilling increases stopping potential in normal conditions. Do you?
So now what? Are you going to answer my question about strength or are you going to continue to dodge it and argue about how drilling does in fact help in cooling? Here it is again in case you forgot:
How does drilling material from the structure of a cast rotor NOT weaken the unit?
__________________
I hate choads who talk out there ass.
on the topic of x-drilled rotors cracking...yeah it can happen. i have personally never seen any of them cracked. but think about what could cause them to crack...being crossdrilled? possibly. the brake system not being broken in properly? quite possibly. resurfaced a few too many times/not with safe specs? possibly.
How will a brake system not being broken in properly cause a rotor to crack?
In any event we are talking about racing applications where rotors ARE NOT turned. They are used for a few weekends and then thrown out. I want to know how drilling and/or slotting DOES NOT weaken the rotor. I can tell you how it does but that isn't what I need to know.
Originally posted by White GSR
Anyhow, the Altima is Nissan's ricer darling.
All the kids whose mommies and daddies didn't buy a slow Accord for them to pass down get stuck w/ a slow Altima to rice out.
I just meant that it's funny coming from a Honda/ac owner that you are calling us ricers (for lack of a better term). When 80% of the rice rockets out there are Hondas/Acuras.
I just meant that it's funny coming from a Honda/ac owner that you are calling us ricers (for lack of a better term). When 80% of the rice rockets out there are Hondas/Acuras.
Doesn't that just fvcking suck?!! I have the best of both worlds - I have an Acura so I get bunched in with the big wing having, body kit toting, visor wearing dipshits but I also have 2 Mustangs so I get lumped in with the Coors Light drinking, NASSCAR watching, wife beating, mullet having inbred crowd.
Will you please stop repeating yourself over and over and over and over and yes over again. The issue at hand was how cross drilled and slotted rotors assist in braking. I think Alex has made his point to you more than enough times. Also if you don't think improper break in time does not cause warpage or cracking then you my friend are an idiot.
Oh, and BTW, I have no racing background, I've only worked on a Ron Fassell's 3 sec Nitromethane powered funny car and Gene Davis' 4.9 sec Nitro dragster for years. So yeah, I know nothing about racing at all....Since, you know, I work for SWA and all, and we're nothing more than a bunch of bench racers....
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