I really just took a shot in the dark with the VIAS block plate mod after reading Rob's write-up on it and I couldn't be more pleased.
The car feels so much stronger now and you really don't notice that big of a low rpm loss unless you're in a lot of stop and go traffic. Even then, our engines are strong enough that it's barely noticeable.
The car is so much more willing to redline now, it's tempting every time.
Great to actually see a dyno of this mod though.
Really puts it in perspective.
Thanks for going through the trouble of all the dyno runs.
All the graphs seem to make sense for what I would expect. But the one thing that does surprise me is that block plate seems to be better than stock for more than just above 3800. From the graphs the block plate is the same or even better than stock for the entire dyno pull with the exception of a 1000rpm gap from 2800-3800. Too bad dynos couldn't be effective all the way down to idle to see if the trend continues.
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So far: tint (20% back and 35% front sides), calipers painted red, active tuning aux input kit
To come: WAI, cat-back, pro-kit (not sure about the order yet)
Very nice comparison, that's exactly the type of data the community needs to make informed decisions on mods like this. It's nice to have someone like yourself taking the time and money to make a report. Definite sticky!
Very nice comparison, that's exactly the type of data the community needs to make informed decisions on mods like this. It's nice to have someone like yourself taking the time and money to make a report. Definite sticky!
Dont forget about the awesome plug for NWP, maybe they will see this great effort and reward me
J/K, although I do thank the fine people at NWP for providing the reduced bling Block Plate at a kick azz nissanclub price!!!
Congrats on a good job. Great info. I've been farting around for two years trying to decide whether to or not to on the vias. This definitely convinces me-to! Thanx.
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Majestic Blue '06 3.5SE, manual, 20% tint, blacked out window chrome, E-Bay grill, red calipers, wai, debadged, titanium pedals, resonator and crimp-gone. My other ride's an '03 Silverado 2500HD 8.1 liter monster. Previously had an 03 2.5S automatic.http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n..._2006/?start=0
I too was suprised to see how MUCH hp and torque loss gutting out the IM made. I would say for most of us, the blocker plate is the way to go unless you are going to race more than commute (or unless you plan on rev'ing to 7K with a reflash.) Heck I think th torque loss on the low side might actually help some of us at the track to keep those front tires under control a bit. However, I was REALLY suprised just how much gain there was hp and tq throughout the RPM range as I was previously under the impression the gains did not start until around 5200 or so but that is definitely not the case. Legendary Thread!
__________________ 2005 Altima 3.5 SE 5AT Go Fast Mods
JWT Pop Charger - Magnaflow cat back exhaust - NWP VIAS Block off plate - Racingline Y pipe Appearance Mods
SER Tails - M3 lip spoiler Drag Times
Best 1/8th mile 9.30 @ 78.32mph That's with a crap tastic 2.36 60 ft.
I heard mixed things about the ssim as well. Now I know I am not even going to touch it! I have the NWP spacers and Vias block off plate. I love them! I can't even floor the car anymore with my 18's on w/o it just jumping to red line spinning!
i dunno the ssim shines for me on top end for me. I noticed a difference when I hit about 80 or 90
Yeah but how many people during the majority of the day are doing that!? I'd rather maintain my power plus the big top end of just the vias mod instead of totally losing my bottom-mid from the ssim for a 7K rpm+ gain that will never be seen with basic bolt-on's or w/o a tune.
Yeah but how many people during the majority of the day are doing that!? I'd rather maintain my power plus the big top end of just the vias mod instead of totally losing my bottom-mid from the ssim for a 7K rpm+ gain that will never be seen with basic bolt-on's or w/o a tune.
This is why I went with just the NWP Block plate since I cant rev past 6600 without a TS ECU..... at least not yet that is. I plan on doing a follow up with a 7100 redline sometime in the future but that wont be for a while so dont hold your breath.
Yeah but how many people during the majority of the day are doing that!? I'd rather maintain my power plus the big top end of just the vias mod instead of totally losing my bottom-mid from the ssim for a 7K rpm+ gain that will never be seen with basic bolt-on's or w/o a tune.
Correction. 5.5k+ gain on SSIM.
All depends on the setup. My setup loves the SSIM. Yours may not.
12hp at 6300rpm SSIM
10.5hp at 6000rpm VIAS delete
300 rpm difference between peak horsepower for both mods.
At 5500 rpm and above you gain an extra 12 hp in the top end with the SSIM.
SSIM is like a topend powerband with 12 extra horsepower on the top end.
The addition of both when you floor your car is where the ssim gives you that extra powerband. In the lower end you suffer, however the Vias compensates for the loss to equal stock except at very low rpm 3500rpm and less.
At that point, your hp and torque are less than stock, because the vias valve should be closed, but it's gone, and the added loss of torque and hp from the SSIM.
One comment about what the dyno does not show is the combination of VIAS delete and SSIM together. What is the effect with both mods on the dyno?
The vias valve when installed is open from 0 rpm to 1800 rpm.
Then it closes from 1800 rpm to 3500 rpm. (Loss people feel from doing VIAS delete)
Then it opens again from 3500 rpm to redline, allowing more air into the manifold.
(The boost you feel from the deleted vias valve allows that much more air to enter the lower IM.)
The SSIM allows even more air to enter the lower intake at 3500rpm and above.
More air = more power.
Sort of the same way a blower dumps or forces more air into the intake under boost.
The difference is the blower is under pressure from the forced induction of air.
The Ssim is not under pressure but does force more air into the IM.
That's why if you get the Technosquare ECU upgrade it raises your rpm to 7130 rpm or higher with cams.
That's where you will continue to add more hp and torque in the top end.
from 6600 to 7130 on a otherwise stock motor.
Don't know how much more in gains you will see but it is probably 1-5 mph in 1/4 mile or in top speed in all gears. Plus that much more hp and torque in the top end of each gear.
If that is what your looking to do.
either way it is 12hp for 600rpm's in each gear if you wind it out to 6600rpm in a stock motor.
Even more with the TS ECU and or cams.
__________________
Nismo CAI
Nismo CAMS
Nismo CAT-back & exhaust
Nismo Radiator cap & Oil cap
SSIM Intake, NWP Spacers & VIAS Plate
Racingline Y-Pipe, Tower Strut and Battery BAR
TechnoSquare ECU And Dyno
2 Degree Timing Advance, STS
Fusion 12"Sub, S5 Clone Grill
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUWAIT BOY
What does it mean? wtf
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS_3rd
wtf - is shorthand for I do not completely understand something or some event.
Last edited by SE-R Altima Driver : 10-17-2008 at 04:26 AM.
Awesome post! I had actually been wondering about this topic for a few weeks once in a while on the drive to work. There are plenty of mods that only get the "Butt-dyno" certification, but looks like your dedication paid off. Your findings seem to agree with what is said in the official Nissan service manual:
"When the engine is running at low or medium speed, the power valve is fully closed. Under this condition, the effective suction port length is equivalent to the total length of the intake manifold collector's suction port including the intake valve. This long suction port provides increased air intake which results in improved suction efficiency and higher torque generation."
Question though:
Is there a way to measure the total area under the power/torque curves with what the Dynojet software provided you? Do you have an excel file? Looking at curve values at specific points on the graph is easy enough, but really critical is a final measurement of TOTAL power/torque gained/lost. The VIAS delete appears to have netted gains across most of the curve, but I'd be interested in a quantifiable measurement of the total gain.
The are ways to mod an engine, but to "un-refine" such a highly refined engine makes me a bit skeptical. I'm of the belief that designing and manufacturing an intake manifold with variable runner length technology is a costly, complex process, so understanding why Nissan took the time, effort, and cost to produce the stock VIAS version (the most technologically complex of the three tested versions) instead of a simple SSIM setup from the start may tell us what we would need to tune next to yield better results from the modded versions.
I'm willing to bet that fuel efficiency may of had something to do with Nissan choosing the complex VIAS setup, so if someone could do an MPG test on these three setups, we could confirm or disprove this theory.
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