50% increase in mileage?

[Dark]

this is one of the reasons i have my echo now. 100whp (110ish bhp) and about 40ish mpg. its got 5 seats and is just as roomy inside as the 1st gen altima (same interior cargo volume). its also got one helluva trunk on it... its a quick, zippy, rev-happy little car that actually handles nicely (i went with extra wide yoko's all the way around)... if you grandma the thing around itll get about 45-50mpg and if you gun it everywhere you only drop to about 35ish. then again, i never use the AC (which would lower mileage by about 2-3mpg) but almost always have my windows down

[Square10002002]

true that. My MR2 has AC but i never use it. More fun with the removible sun roof

[sstupid]

Here's an article for you guys that talks about using your windows instead of your A/C. #6 also goes into what I was saying about the bolt-on and pour-in bullshit like this hydro-assist fuel cell.

6 Gas-Saving Myths
by Peter Valdes-Dapena
Thursday, May 15, 2008
provided by

Sure you want to save gas, but there's a lot of bad advice on how to do it. Some of it makes no difference, and some of it can wind up costing you.

With gasoline prices hitting record levels, it seems everyone has a tip on how to save fuel. Much of the advice is well-intentioned, but in the end, much of it won't lower your gas bill.

Here's a look at a few misconceptions:

#1. Fill Your Tank in the Morning

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You may have heard that it's best to fill your gas tank in the early morning while the fuel is cold. The theory goes that fluids are more dense at lower temperatures, so a gallon of cold gas actually has more gas molecules than a gallon of warmer gas.

But the temperature of the gasoline as it comes out of the nozzle varies little during the course of the day, according to Consumer Reports, so there's little, if any, benefit, to getting up early to pump gas.

#2. Change Your Air Filter

Maintaining your car is important, but a clean air filter isn't going to save you any gas. Modern engines have computer sensors that automatically adjust the fuel-air mixture as an increasingly clogged air filter chokes off the engine's air supply.

While engine power will decrease slightly as the air filter becomes clogged, a lack of performance or an increase in fuel consumption will be negligible, Consumer Reports says.

#3. Use Premium Fuel

With prices already over $4.00 a gallon, premium gasoline is a hard sell these days. But a lot of drivers think because their owners' manual recommends premium, they'll get better fuel economy if they stick with it. Really, they're paying more money for nothing.

Even cars for which premium is recommended won't suffer with regular fuel. Modern engine technology comes to the rescue again. When sensors detect regular instead of premium fuel, the system automatically adjusts spark plug timing. The result is a slight reduction in peak horsepower - really, you'll never notice - but no reduction in fuel economy.

#4. Pump Up Your Tires

Proper tire inflation is important for a number of reasons. Under-inflated tires are bad for handling and can even cause a crash. Improper tire inflation also causes tires to wear out faster and to heat up more, which could trigger a dangerous high-speed blow-out.

According to on-the-road driving tests by both Consumer Reports and auto information site Edmunds.com, underinflated tires reduce fuel economy, so proper inflation is key.

But you should never over-inflate your tires. They'll get you slightly better fuel economy because there will be less tread touching the road, reducing friction. But that means less grip for braking and turning. The added risk of a crash isn't worth the extra mile a gallon you might gain.

#5. To A/C or Not A/C

There's no question air-conditioning makes extra work for the engine, increasing fuel use. But car air conditioners are much more efficient today than they used to be. In around-town driving, using the A/C will drop fuel economy by about a mile a gallon.

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Meanwhile, driving at higher speeds with the windows down greatly increases aerodynamic drag. As speed increases, drag becomes more of an issue, making A/C use the more efficient choice at high speeds.

At most speeds and in most vehicles, A/C use drains slightly more fuel than driving with the windows down, contends David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports. "My final take on is that it's very close," says Phil Reed, consumer advice editor for Edmunds.com. "It's hard to measure the difference and every vehicle is different."

The best choice - if temperature and humidity allow - is to keep the windows rolled up and to turn the A/C compressor off. You can keep the fans running to blow in air from the outside, but your car will be as aerodynamic as possible while still letting you breathe. You will save gas, but the fuel economy improvement will be slight.

#6. Bolt-Ons and Pour-Ins

Before you buy a device that's supposed to make your car more fuel-efficient or pour in an allegedly gas-saving additive, ask yourself this: Don't you think oil and car companies aren't doing everything they can to beat their competitors?

If BP could add something to its gasoline that made cars go farther on a gallon, cars would be lining up at the company's pumps. Sure, people would burn their fuel-saving BP gas more slowly, but then they'd drive right past rivals' gas stations to come back to BP for more. BP stations could even charge more for their gas and still sell tons of the stuff.

So if there really was an additive that made gas burn up more slowly, it wouldn't be sold over the Internet one bottle at a time.

Likewise, car companies are already spending big bucks to increase fuel mileage. If General Motors could make its cars go significantly farther on a gallon simply by putting a device into the fuel line, don't think for a second it wouldn't be doing that. GM's car sales would go through the roof.

"There are a number of these gas-saving devices that are generally useless," says Champion.

But drivers who try them will swear they work. In reality, it's probably an automotive placebo effect, says Reed. Buy one of these devices or additives, and you're like to pay extreme attention to your fuel economy and how you drive.

Of course it can't hurt to keep a close eye on your driving habits -- and what kind of car you drive. In the end, that can make the most difference in saving gas.

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[heckishfire]

Whew, I just blew about 1.5hrs at work reading through all the posts! Cheers to Dave for undertaking such a nightmarish project. Glad it's working!

[jumper73]

Ok. What's with all this newbs joining the forum just to jump into THIS THREAD ONLY to view? Did they all somehow just joined the forum to put up a lenghty post about this product only?? Anyone see something wrong here?

Anyways, I read through most of the posts and it seems like it came to a conclusion that I suspected from begining:

product works - to non-mechanical/enthusiast types anyway. Anyone truly into cars and know few things about it would know that leaning out the car is what's providing the increase in mpg (what "negative" posters have been saying all along). It's also fact that leaning out the fuel will kill the engine. Even OP himself said that ECU was trying to work itself out because it's reading too lean.

Fact remains that car is running too lean. Only way to be sure? Get yourself a wideband and see if afr is correct. Chances are that it's not and OP will have more problem and drainage in the wallet than mere $1000 to purchase this scam.

But at the end, people will see increase in mpg. What the product doesn't advertise is that way sooner than later, it'll crap out your engine. But so what.. you're at least getting 100 mpg, right?

[jayjaya29]

Originally Posted by jumper73

product works - to non-mechanical/enthusiast types anyway. Anyone truly into cars and know few things about it would know that leaning out the car is what's providing the increase in mpg (what "negative" posters have been saying all along). It's also fact that leaning out the fuel will kill the engine. Even OP himself said that ECU was trying to work itself out because it's reading too lean.

Fact remains that car is running too lean. Only way to be sure? Get yourself a wideband and see if afr is correct. Chances are that it's not and OP will have more problem and drainage in the wallet than mere $1000 to purchase this scam.

But at the end, people will see increase in mpg. What the product doesn't advertise is that way sooner than later, it'll crap out your engine. But so what.. you're at least getting 100 mpg, right?

But its the means and technical nonsense behind the product that is inflammatory. Why not be blunt and say "this will lean out your fuel delivery and net you fuel savings" instead of making up all these "scientific" or "proven" technologies?

[jserrano]

You have to understand that the ECU is a self-tuning device. If you plan to through something into the engine to improve mileage then you better have a way to control some key engine sensors to fool them into thinking nothing has changed.

The best way this could be accomplished with satisfaction would be to have a separate standalone ECU provided as part of the kit so things could be tuned to perfection.

[jimnolimit]

Originally Posted by jayjaya29

But its the means and technical nonsense behind the product that is inflammatory. Why not be blunt and say "this will lean out your fuel delivery and net you fuel savings" instead of making up all these "scientific" or "proven" technologies?

because you can charge $900+ for the "hydrogen miracle" , the product has to sound "special" and "revolutionary" then you mix a few facts and some misconceptions in and you got yourself a "seller" . people , if they want to "believe" , will convince themselves to , plus the fact that when you actually install something like these "cutting-edge" devices you will highly scrutinize the way you drive which will lower your mpg .

[jimnolimit]

Originally Posted by jumper73

Ok. What's with all this newbs joining the forum just to jump into THIS THREAD ONLY to view? Did they all somehow just joined the forum to put up a lenghty post about this product only?? Anyone see something wrong here?

It's also fact that leaning out the fuel will kill the engine. Even OP himself said that ECU was trying to work itself out because it's reading too lean.

i see something wrong here . for all i know these newb's are the ones selling these devices and there just trying to do some damage control and make sure the few "believers" (suckers) still think there's hope . they just join a nissan forum and only contribute to one thread with 1-2 posts

the ecu was fighting what the OP did to his A/F ratio as self preservation , it was trying to stop him from detonating the motor .

a jimnolimit saying :
"i might have been born at night , but it wasn't last night"

[Pea-Ta]

OK so this is what I got out of 12 pages....

OP gets this new kit
OP gets close to 100 mpg
OP gets ridiculed

The system works but it makes the engine run lean.....

amirite?

[Square10002002]

100MPG now = broken car later

:thumbs dow

[sstupid]

Good God, now there's a banner.



I'd like to Jeff Otto.

[jimnolimit]

Originally Posted by Pea-Ta

OK so this is what I got out of 12 pages....

OP gets this new kit
OP gets close to 100 mpg
OP gets ridiculed

The system works but it makes the engine run lean.....

amirite?

the OP didn't get 100 mpg and the system didn't make his engine run lean he did , so he doesn't need to buy the system and spend $900-$1000 . leaning out your engine is bad , something called detonation can happen . when you lean out your A/F ratio it like blowing on burning coals , they get hotter !!! well guess what , your pistons are made out of an aluminum alloy that melts at around 1500-1600 degress F , if normal cylinder temps are around 900-1000 F , running lean will increase this temp (stoking the fire) and bring the pistons very close to breaking/melting , hence the name detonation (like detonating a bomb) .

the point is , the hydrogen generator , which is just a simple electrolysis device , is not responsible for the gas savings , period !!! the leaned out A/F ratio is . if you want to lean out you engine go ahead , but you don't need to buy an expensive kit to do so and make some ass-hole a small fortune !!! plus these kits don't seem to have any wide-band O2 meters with them which you need to properly adjust your A/F ratio .

if you believe those guys at 3:00am in infomercials that tell you you can get rich by sitting on your couch and working 1 hour a day , or , those infomercial pills that claim to fix any problem you have , go and believe and make those snake oil salesmen rich !!! its your money not mine !!!

a saying by jimnolimit :

"i might have been born at night , but it wasn't last night"

[iDrunk]

I just read through all 12 pages of this and its kinda sorry to see all the negative feedback. I have never used a setup like this before, but over the past week or so I have spent a LOT of time looking in to this and you might not want to dismiss this without even knowing anything about it. It sux that he spent close to a grand on his rig cause it looks like they're not that hard ,or expensive to just build yourself.

Check out Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices - Chapter 10 This explains how these works, different types that can be build, and how to safely manage the temps that come with running lean.

It's a long read (194 pages), but its very detailed and there are plenty of pictures to easily explain whats involved.

All in all it looks like you can put one of these together for about $150. While a 200% gain in fuel efficiency is probably an unrealistic goal, even an increase of 30%-50% would defiantly be a relief with gas at $4.30 a gallon

[MADMIKE]

another 1st time poster

coincidence?