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Outside Temperature: 32
Conditions: Clear
Heater: off
Defrost: off
Wipers: off
Headlights: low beam
Stereo: "Random Music Folder"
Volume: 20
Riders: Me (176 lbs) Grace (115 lbs)
Interior contents: CD case, tool case
Trunk Contents: 1 bottle throttle body cleaner, small air compressor, Autolock, jumper cables
Pump speed setting: slowest notch
Time of departure: 2:19 AM (receipt for first fill up)
Time of return: 3:05 AM (receipt for second fill up)
Distance: 50.4 Miles
Speed: 55 MPH
Gasoline replaced: 1.667 gallons
Mileage calculated: 30.23 miles/gallon
It's lower than the original test, which I'm not sure that I did exactly right, but at least didn't significantly decrease my mileage haha. The manual STRONGLY suggests that I have the optimizer tuned by a certified tuner. Luckily for me, this product is in its infancy and those guys don't really exist much as of yet. I'm going to make some calls and see if I can find a tuner in my area.
It kinda makes sense if you think about it. Not many companies would just give you a product that works if there's a way to make more money from it. They can claim it's set to some universal default settings and if they set the optimizer up so that I have to tune it to get the results I want, they make more bank. It's simple, so honestly, I wasn't too surprised. I'm hoping that's the case.
Another option is one I just received yesterday. I signed up to be an affiliate when I first got this kit, basically because if it worked I wanted to do something more to let people know. I got an email yesterday saying I can get a kit and mechanic training DVDs for $900. I'm supposed to, as an affiliate, look for mechanics in my area to become trained and certified in installing the HAFC kit and get commission on each install or tuning they do. The training DVD's would normally be $800 I think and the kit you know is a grand, so that's like half the price. Problem is, I'm not buying another unless I'm going to be selling it to someone, and I don't want to sell it to anyone until I know it works. This may be an alien concept to most affiliates who are just trying to sell as much of these kits as possible for a profit, but if this is BS I want the world to know. Same thing goes for if it works.
I basically just want to get my hands on the DVDs to see how to tune it myself. I may not have the equipment to do so but I just want to know how it's done. I popped open the optimizer before we installed it and I don't remember seeing any potentiometers or anything that could be physically tweaked, but I wasn't really looking for them.
As of right now, I'm about ready to raise the BS flag and never revisit this again. However, I will make attempts to find a tuner in my area, since it should be about $100 to have that done, and having spent nothing on the install, thanks to my friend's skills and a little of my assistance, I'm willing to drop that into it to get it to work or get my money back. Worst case, I'm out about $100 for getting it tuned. But I still did some much needed catching up with Quan haha. Plus his mom's cooking is remarkable. We'll just say I was well fed.
The energy it produces, upon combustion, is about 3.2 times as much as regular gasoline. I did the conversions; 44.4 MJ/kg for regular gasoline and 142.7 MJ/kg for the HHO gas produced from the cell.
OK, so I'll look into getting it tuned and complain to as many people involved with it as possible that it's not working the way I want it to.
I'll keep you guys posted. I really want to believe this will work, but my God do they make it hard.
Keep the faith, if there was any to begin with,
>Dave
thats what im thinking, and if you ever look at the forums with those guys, they all sound like the type that still play with Ham radios waiting on the Reds to invade. some of them have created interesting results though, but nothing thats not insanely tedious/pain in the ass.
recently Crower developed a steam-stroke motor.. cant find the link now, but it was interesting.
News though. I called Jeff Otto of jeffotto.com and told him about my install.
I asked him about my idea of buying the $900 kit for the training DVDs and he said I didn't need to do that. He told me the training DVDs were only like $30, but once viewed, if the mechanic wanted to be certified, he'd have to take a course for like $800.
So I paypaled him some 30 bucks and the DVDs should be on their way soon. If they take as long as the HAFC kit took to ship, I should have them like next week or the week after. But it'll probably take forever instead. That's just my luck.
I'm goiong to need an auto scanner. I don't know which kind but the training DVDs should tell me. It may end up costing more than if I just paid to have it tuned but I really don't care much. Basically, I'd rather be able to fine tune the optimizer whenever I want rather than pay a tuner like $100 to do it once. That's just the kind of guy I am and I'm sure you my friends, of all people, can understand.
So, I don't know what else to tell you guys. It will be a while before I have the knowledge and tools to tune the damn thing, but I'll continue to keep close track of my mileage and let you guys know if it randomly jumps to 50 for a tank.
I'm sincerely sorry that this is taking so long and still isn't a huge success but
I really appreciate you guys keeping up with me and all the support I've been getting.
My optimism rarely gets the best of me, but I'd love for this to be going more smoothly.
There's probably some wise idiom or philosopher I could quote about chasing a dream instead of facing reality, but I think the point is: you're pouring a lot of money and time into a project that last I checked, NOBODY has seen work. Food for thought.
We'll see, but if he is I can get it back through paypal. Plus I know all his contact info.
I'm definitely putting quite a bit of time and a little bit of money into this (I say little because I've only spent $30 I might not be able to get back), but it's something I am genuinely interested in and have a decent amount of faith in.
I'd really love to be able to go to WIREC convention in DC and see their debut of the PICC, but it's during my first week of classes for next semester.
I'm trying to stay positive about this and give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, have you seen how many websites are out there advertising products to run your car on water? It's not just one company catching on to this. If this is a scam it's a very wide-spread and deeply involved one.
Maybe I'm just doing this because I don't have any real hobbies. That combined with my severe abhorrence for the Big Oil industry is pushing me to pursue. If I start something, I'm never accepting of it's failure until I know I did everything I could to make it succeed. That's the only reason I got all parts of my senior project done this semester.
So I guess all I'm asking is just to save all the "I told you so's" until after I've determined this a failure. I'll let you bust on me all you want if that happens and I might even change my avatar picture to a jackass haha.
We'll see, but if he is I can get it back through paypal. Plus I know all his contact info.
I'm definitely putting quite a bit of time and a little bit of money into this (I say little because I've only spent $30 I might not be able to get back), but it's something I am genuinely interested in and have a decent amount of faith in.
I'd really love to be able to go to WIREC convention in DC and see their debut of the PICC, but it's during my first week of classes for next semester.
I'm trying to stay positive about this and give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, have you seen how many websites are out there advertising products to run your car on water? It's not just one company catching on to this. If this is a scam it's a very wide-spread and deeply involved one.
Maybe I'm just doing this because I don't have any real hobbies. That combined with my severe abhorrence for the Big Oil industry is pushing me to pursue. If I start something, I'm never accepting of it's failure until I know I did everything I could to make it succeed. That's the only reason I got all parts of my senior project done this semester.
So I guess all I'm asking is just to save all the "I told you so's" until after I've determined this a failure. I'll let you bust on me all you want if that happens and I might even change my avatar picture to a jackass haha.
But, today's my birthday, so be nice.
All for now.
>Dave
No busting your ass today then......HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
__________________
Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round. Any deviation to this is considered a bad thing.
The manual says it should take about 2-3 hours to install. I brought the manual to my mechanic who said that doesn't sound feasible.
"Easy to install" they say. Whether this is a bs product or not, I'm already pissed and I haven't even gotten the kit yet.
I'll keep you guys posted though... all two of you.
>Dave
Dave
Wondering how things are going for you on this? I've helped install a few of these now. Generally first time around it will take 6-8 hours to install and more to tune. Assuming you don't run into difficulties. Once in a while things fall in place and it works out of the box but since it's one size fits most it can be frustrating. I have a friend here, (Bismarck, ND) that installs them and has/can do many of them in 3 hours. You should be able to find a certified trainer reasonably close as I believe the highest concentration is our your way. If you need help tuning it yourself I'd be glad to assist you via email or phone calls, or help you find a local installer to tune it for you.
There is an article here: Fuel Economy Tips.com » Blog Archive » Tuning for Mileage (Part 1)
which may help get you on track with tuning. It's generic for tuning for mileage on fuel injected vehicles but all the methods used are implemented in the o2ptomizer. If you don't have the tuning manual I can email it to you. Generally only available to people that have gone through class.
Cheers
Grant
Last edited by iburnh2o : 02-29-2008 at 02:17 PM.
Reason: to consolidate info instead of adding additional posts
I'd really like the tuning manual if you don't mind. I ordered the DVDs but that was just a few days ago so I've yet to get them. I know I need a scan tool but I wasn't gonna get one until the DVDs told me which kind I'd need.
I'm not a mechanic, just a mechanically inclined individual. I actually brought the kit to two different mechanics at different shops and both were unsure if they could install it. One outright refused and the other never got back to me.
I also don't have a clamp on amp meter, so I don't know if it's drawing the right current, but the amount of caustic I used is producing enough gas to get some condensation in the 8' line with little to no fog.
Jeff Otto from jeffotto.com sold me the kit but I've asked him a few times and have not been able to get the names or locations of any mechanics or tuners in any area. He doesn't have a list or anything aparently. I love the guy and he seems very sincere and down to Earth but I'm getting annoyed that he just keeps telling me, as an affiliate, to sign up a mechanic and tuner in my area. I read in an FAQ that it should be included in my kit. I also listened in on the affiliate conference call from Dennis and asked him, but was unable to get any immediate solution.
I'm not looking to make money on this kit, like most affiliates. I'm looking to save money with it and tell the world of my success, if I have any. The only reason I became an affiliate was to get more information and have a greater role in spreading the use and awareness of this product to satisfy my disdain of the big oil and auto companies. I am sincerely excited about this system and whole-heartedly want it to work.
I'm sure messing with the optimizer is key to getting the gains I want and Jeff tells me he's seen double mileage on four cylinder cars pretty often so I'm really pulling for this to work. I'd love to be able to tune it myself, but if it doesn't work out, I'll have to find a tuner in my area so I can get the refund.
Unfortunately, the last hope I have for this system is that the optimizer needs to be tuned. I've had a ton of people tell me not to waste my money on this but I need to see for myself so I can prove them wrong or let them all know it's a scam. I just won't stop until I've exhausted all options.
I appreciate for your reply, and I'd love to call and talk about this further.
Please email me your number and the tuning manual at exmeth@gmail.com. I've been doing a lot of research on this and I'm glad that I'm finally finding some other people dealing with this system that can help me out.
I had what i thought to be bad news last night when, while driving back to my APT from center city Philly, my Check Engine light came on. It didn't seem like there was anything wrong and the car got home fine.
Today I went to Advance Auto to check out the trouble code. I was ecstatic to find it was "Engine running too lean." This is good and bad since if my engine's runnign too lean, enough to set off a code at least, the ECM has gone into open loop and is ignoring the O2 sensor which causes a flooding of the engine with gas. But it also means that Oh God, It's f*cking working. I turned off the HAFC system since I will lose all mileage gains if it's running in open loop. I wish it told me earlier though since my last tank of gas was terrible; about 19 MPG mixed driving, mostly city though.
I've yet to get the training DVDs but I ordered an Auto Enginuity Scan Gauge system.
The optimizer needs to be tuned but my hopes are growing for this. Check out the videos on Run Your Car on Water
All three are broadcasted news stories about people using water to help power their cars, amongst other things.
Just felt like updating you guys. I'm trying to get this thing tuned later this month but I won't know exactly how until I get those damn DVDs. Someone sent me the tuning manual PDF but I have no experience with this and that's only really to be used after learning how. I talked to some guy who had the training DVDs and said he'd try to zip and email me the tuning one but then sent me "I can't send the dvd. It's totally illegal, and besides. It's ****ing huge, and I just got in trouble for trying to use our servers like blockbuster recently. Sorry on this."
Haha, anyway I'll keep up on this, get this tuned as soon as I can and let you guys know things as they develop. I would have posted this sooner but I've been playing "Grifball" on XBox live all day and pwnzing some nubs with gravity hammers. I suck at Halo but, for some reason, I'm good at this particular event. "Killtastrophie."
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