50% increase in mileage?

[kazesay]

That's not very accurate at all. Little inaccuracies don't even out with such little travel. Do longer trips before fill-up atleast 1/4 of a tank because your Odometer might not be 100% accurate nor the pump you filled up at. Try to use the same pump also if possible because it will therefore be the equally inaccurate both times. Good luck with further testing cant wait.

I agree and would love to do better tests, but as I said before, the ECM is still a thorn in my ass and refuses to stabilize and accept the gains provided by the system.

Once I figure things out and start getting consistent results I will replicate the conditions of my first test listed on the first page of this thread for the best possible comparison. Still you must admit that regardless of variables like weather, routes and gas stations, any of which could act for or against me, 82MPG is nothing to shake Grampy's stick at. This system does work, regardless of what each component contributes, they all, in concert, produce truly impressive results.

I can't wait to get the bugs worked out and conduct better tests.
I will keep everyone posted when that time comes so stay tuned.

>Dave

[ankit]

Seriously though I really hope it works out. With the spike in gas prices that we are supposed to see this summer, it will pay off.

[kazesay]

I really hope so. Allow me to look for a quote to express how I much I agree.

[kazesay]

Originally Posted by The Kool-Aid Guy

Oh yeah!

That'll do.

[sstupid]

You're just going to keep lying to yourself until you can no longer return it, if you ever could have.

[kazesay]

Haha, ok man. At this point I really don't care. I've proven it to quite a few people, and most importantly to myself, so I have absolutely no intention return it at all.

I've seen that, when working properly, it has the potential to get close to 100 MPG. Regardless of varying factors that are giving me a headache in getting this thing to be consistent, thanks Nissan, I feel like I would be seriously brain damaged to say "I got almost 100 MPG once and in the 60s a few times but I don't want it anymore." What the hell kind of motor head are you? Who's really lying to themselves? "Just give up." Hahaha.

I don't know what's so hard for you to believe.
Hydrogen combusts. Don't believe me? Separate two stainless steel light switch plates with rubber stoppers, dunk 'em in a fish tank, give it a current and put a lighter to the bubbles that instantly form. I don't know why I'm even bothering. You don't want to believe it so you won't. Then it will get massively popular and you'll deny ever saying anything negative.

I'm sorry to sound rude but giving up seems absolutely retarded, especially now.
You have no idea how staggering an effect people like you have in stifling brilliant and innovative technology like this.

Thanks for your thoughts, but in short: don't care.

>Dave

[jban4US]

Your ecm is fighting you because you are trying to run lean as hell. The ecm wants the engine alive, you appear to want it dead. All your gains are from tuning, the hydrogen part isn't doing anything.

You need to do some longer tests, lots of them. Try running a few with the hydrogen thing disconnected just for fun

[Dark]

i seriously suggest a wideband o2 sensor with a digital readout. that narrowband you have is NOT sufficient for tuning. narrow bands are more of a lean/rich reading whereas widebands will tell you lambda => more or less exactly your AFR. so long as you keep that around 14-15ish you'll be fine. any more than that and youre running lean enough to cut miles off the engine life... too lean and itll pop.

[kaptain_kraig]

There's this guy at work that told me about the hydro-assist fuel cell thing. Here's the deal (I'm an engineer) from what I researched on "hydrogengarage.com". You use your battery to perform electrolisis to water, thereby seperating the hydrogen and oxygen. The "hydroxy" gas, which is one of the most dangerously explosive mixtures known on planet Earth is produced, then sent into your intake manifold through either a vacuum line or just right into the throttle body. This gas is then ignited in your combustion chambers and a lot of energy is released.

Here's the problems. No matter what any of these websites say, it violates the laws of physics. To seperate hydrogen and oxygen from water would require an equal amount of energy that is produced when it is burned and recombined into water. This is assuming 100% efficiency, so to get 10hp of power out of the "hydroxy" gas, would require 10hp of power to produce the "hydroxy" gas. In reality, we are nowhere near 100% efficency in producing the hydroxy gas from electrolosis. These websites claim by using some type of MOSFET controller to send electrical pulses into the hydrogen generator (which is some type of canister with metal plates in it), that you can get a lot of hydroxy gas out with little energy input. Performing electrolisis using this technique is more efficient than straight DC current to do the same job, however, the efficiency is still far from 100%. In addition, burning this mixture of hydroxy gas in higher concentrations will cause detonation inside your engine. Here's why: Normal gasoline requires an ignition timing around 20 to 15 degrees before top dead center. This is because the gasoline takes time to start the combustion process, and the pistion is on its way back down before the pressure to drive the pistion has built up in the chamber. The hydroxy gas combusts so quickly, that it builds up the "piston-driving" pressure while the piston is still on its way up. This results in detonation and can cause serious engine mechanical failure. When used in very small amounts, the hydroxy gas and gasoline mixture would probably not affect this too much, however, the ignition timing may still be advanced slightly too much. The MPG gains are real to some extent. Here's why: A vacuum line is used to draw the gas from the canister to the intake manifold. The result is about the same as if you created a vacuum leak. More air gets into the engine while bypassing the MAF sensor and throttle-body. This leans the mixture. The lean mixture will give you more MPG, but can cause high temperatures inside the combustion chambers. This can cause premature engine wear even if your coolant temps are OK. And lastly (I know your're getting bored by now!!), if this hydroxy gas should leak and ignite under the hood, you can do some serious damage to your car. I would imagine that it could blow your hood right off and screw up a lot of other stuff!! Personally, if I was going to experiment with a rig like this for kicks and giggles, I'd buy a $1200 Honda from some high school kid. Hope this helps.

[kazesay]

That's very interesting, and I appreciate your input. First off, it only violates the laws of physics if you are powering the engine strictly with hydrogen. True, if I had the battery powering the cell, making the hydrogen, running the engine, turning the alternator, charging the battery, it would be impossible to prevent any energy loss and my battery would soon die. However, you're ignoring that gasoline is still involved. The battery uses a small amount of energy, not to create the gasoline, but to inject it into the chamber. You have an outside energy source, gasoline, so the running of the fuel cell, like any other electrical appliance in your car (stereo, clock, headlights, etc.), does not kill the battery.

Secondly, the timing is adjusted to account for the rapid propagation of the hydrogen combustion. It's part of the training for certified tuners so is not included as public information on the website.

Also, if you could get 83MPG by making a vacuum leak, Jesus Christ man, I think more people would just be pulling a hose off the intake and enjoying 1500 miles to a tank. That's a ridiculous suggestion.

Not much hydrogen is produced at one time and I have seen the power of smaller hydrogen explosions. It's certainly a cause for concern, but a risk I'm willing to monitor closely and take anyway.

Finally, and I don't know why I even keep trying but, regardless of what anyone says, I don't care, it works. I don't know what contributes most, or what is and is not even necessary. I just know that I'm getting close to 100 MPG and I don't give a shit if they sold me and installed squirrels in my tires. I'm a utilitarian, and I think, in this case, the end definitely justifies the means. Good luck with the $1200 hooptie though. Keep us updated on that.

>Dave

[jayjaya29]

If you were getting close to 100MPG then you should apply for The Automotive X Prize:

Automotive X Prize - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I won't believe you are getting 100MPG until you get some hard data. All it seems to me is that you are just making the car run leaner and thus saving fuel.

I've been looking at the some of the components of the system and it all seems fishy: Magnets to ionize the fuel....hydrocarbons are nonpolar molecules. Chemicals that crack the fuel....then it wouldn't burn correctly.

I would like to see this system work for a whole tank of gas. Fill up, reset the trip odometer and drive normally until the gas light comes on. Fill up again and divide the miles driven by the amount gas used to fill up.

[kazesay]

Wow, I really thought all this negativity would stop after I got the thing working. I'm sure the Big Oil execs would have big shit-eating grins on all their faces if they knew how well they've brainwashed people into thinking gasoline is the only way to run a car. They've had America by the nuts for more than half a century.

I agree, however, the vaporizer that ionizes and heats the fuel always seemed kind of iffy to me. I've heard people getting small gains from magnetizing or heating fuel or no gains at all. The general consensus is it's crap, and I can't say I disagree, but since that's not the main component of the system I'm not really relying too heavily on it.

Once I get the bugs worked out, I will definitely do a normal everyday driving test. I know how and I do it every time I fill up. But, even once I get it working consistently, if this is what you were actually suggesting, no, I will not fill up, drive until empty and fill up again. I know this thing's potential and with the best mileage I've seen so far and the size of my tank it would be a trip damn near half way across the country. That's f*cking ridiculous just to prove something to one guy.

I'm sorry but I really don't care if you, or anyone believes it works. I'm beyond that. It gave me enough of a headache before I got the thing working. Now that it is, I don't really care. If it blows my engine, I will certainly take legal action against the company but I'll deal with that if it happens.

I'd appreciate only non-biased, constructive criticism in the future.
A request I'm sure will go unhonored.

Thanks,
>Dave

[sstupid]

I own a bridge in Brooklyn NY. Would you like to buy it?

[kazesay]

Case and point.

[eclypse]

refuses to do a reasonable test, says a wideband to read AFR (no brainer!) isnt necessary, is an "affiliate" and is swearing it works.

wasnt the counter argument to people not believing in this something along the lines of being related to (or affiliated) with groups that'd desire you to believe it doesnt work? is anybody following this thread really taking this seriously?

Gas is 3.80 for premium, and even making the money I make, that sucks my balls to have to fill up on. I really wish we could plug up a mason jar, some Lowes tubes, a couple of metal plates and 2 wires and increase mileage too..