artisan turbo charger development

[jason2922]

Originally Posted by Ormand

Matt is often just here to stir things up. But this time, I don't think he's being subjective. Any one with any knowledge of automobiles will understand that just adding a turbo without upgrading other components will give you a problem with reliability. And that the cost is going to be high. And that you will need better suspension, wheels, and tires. Objectively, that brings the car up near the cost of an car with all that designed into it, and a warranty.

all of this is understood when we all bought our cars - the KEY is that we want to be different.

Any turd can go out and buy a car with a turbo or a muscle car, but why be like everyone else?

[missouriguy1973]

Originally Posted by matt7400

Thanks for the lesson. So the idea is everyone here needs to be enthusiastic for everyone's modification. This sounds and feel's like the gayest support group ever-silly. For your lesson BMW did-NOT install a turbo on any gasoline engine except 1974? 2002tii, a 1984 745i, and now the 335i. Do you know why the greatest performance car manufacturer only installed it on 3 models out of 125 models in over 30yrs? Start reading a little history/mechanics and put down your Fast and the furious calendar with Vin Diesel and get back to me. Im joking, do what you want just don't believe you can just slap a turbo on any motor and still have drivability and durability. How many other 3.5 litre motors have turbo's? I can think of 2 and their both twin turbo design's.

BMW has 4 cars with turbos stock...read up dude, the new 1 series has the same engine in it, with twin turbos, as the 335i does...

Also, many manufacturers, specifically Ford, are coming out with turboed engines in the near future to actually HELP with gas mileage, since they provide similar performance to a larger naturally aspirated engine, while giving the efficiency of the smaller engine while out of boost...Google Ford EcoBoost and you'll see what Ford has on the horizon...

[Ormand]

Originally Posted by jason2922

all of this is understood when we all bought our cars - the KEY is that we want to be different.

Any turd can go out and buy a car with a turbo or a muscle car, but why be like everyone else?

Any turd can make a stupid statement, and that is certainly one of them. It is entirely possible to be "different" without being dense. The Altima is fwd, and not matter how much you spend on the turbo, it is STILL going to be fwd, and it will have the handling that goes with fwd. You will void the warranty, that is certainly worth being "different". You will put more power into the driveline than it is designed for, so it won't be reliable. That's sure a good way to be "different". There are smart ways to be "different", and there are other ways. For the last ten years, I drove a turbo Regal (like a Grand National, only it wasn't black) so I have some experience with a 3.8 liter turbo V6. There were a LOT of things done to that car to make it work with the turbo, and many of the guys who worked on the GNs and T Types were VERY sharp- there were even some sharp turbo guys from Missouri. Maybe "Missouriguy" can spend some time with them, and actually LEARN something about turbo cars, rather than just spouting off junk he thinks he learned on the internet.

[Foglght]

Originally Posted by Ormand

Matt is often just here to stir things up. But this time, I don't think he's being subjective. Any one with any knowledge of automobiles will understand that just adding a turbo without upgrading other components will give you a problem with reliability. And that the cost is going to be high. And that you will need better suspension, wheels, and tires. Objectively, that brings the car up near the cost of an car with all that designed into it, and a warranty.

I would have agreed with you if you were talking about engine and transmission parts, but adding a turbo does not make any of those components wear out any faster. The car can still only go as fast around a corner as it could when it didn't have a turbo.

Warranties only last for 3 years. You could get an extended warranty, but what they cover is sketchy at best unless you have one of the better extended programs, and there aren't many out there.

Yeah, the tires will probably wear out faster because people with turbos like to show them off. Clutch and half shafts are all I'd really be worried about.

Brakes are not a necessity. The car stock would only take 3-4 real hard stops to fade them anyway, and I know this from being on track with the car. An inexpensive set of semi-track pads take care of that, and at that point it would be prudent to flush the brake fluid with 600+ stuff if one is already planning on needing those better brakes.

[missouriguy1973]

Originally Posted by Ormand

Maybe "Missouriguy" can spend some time with them, and actually LEARN something about turbo cars, rather than just spouting off junk he thinks he learned on the internet.

So am I wrong on anything I said? I'm thinking not...

I've known quite a few people that have had turboed engines, even a few that have turbo mustangs that I've helped wrench on and they drive on the street just as well as they did before the turbo...

5-6psi of boost isn't going to hurt these cars...that will put them right around 320hp at the wheels, and they'll last plenty long as long as they get the tune right...I know of a lot of twinned 350z's, which have practically the same engine as our VQ, in my area that have been around for a long time now without any problems...Sure the Altima's are FWD, but there are a lot of tuner cars that are FWD and go plenty fast down the track...I know of a 10 second VW Golf off hand that runs weekly at our track that is 100% street capable...

[Nissan4LIFE]

Wow its great too see how much controversy can be stirred up with this thread but like I said. Its still their choice to do whatever they want. Ok, I've been to Z car shows here in SoCal where people put 800+ HP Chevy engines in their 240 and 280 Z's and put twin turbos on them and do you think they are concerned with relaibility. Some people who turbo their cars may not even be doing it to drive...they are simply doing it for the shows because they know they are flashy enough to win. I will give a perfect example to anyone who just was at the Nissan/Infinity day at Stillen this past weekend...The National Guard Altima Coupe which will have a full turbo kit and some of the flashiest cooling systems I've seen in a long time with clear coolant hoses, etc. Its all for show and you know some people can do that just because they want to. You guys really cannot knock someone for that otherwise what is the point for an aftermarket industry anyway. Otherwise shut the hell up because you all are blowing this waaaay out of proportion!

[Ormand]

Originally Posted by missouriguy1973

So am I wrong on anything I said? I'm thinking not...

I've known quite a few people that have had turboed engines, even a few that have turbo mustangs that I've helped wrench on and they drive on the street just as well as they did before the turbo...

5-6psi of boost isn't going to hurt these cars...that will put them right around 320hp at the wheels, and they'll last plenty long as long as they get the tune right...I know of a lot of twinned 350z's, which have practically the same engine as our VQ, in my area that have been around for a long time now without any problems...Sure the Altima's are FWD, but there are a lot of tuner cars that are FWD and go plenty fast down the track...I know of a 10 second VW Golf off hand that runs weekly at our track that is 100% street capable...

If you want to build a slow 1/4 mile car, not drivable on the street, then yes, you are partly right. (most of the "tuners" are smart enough to start out with a light car, and they run LOTS of boost to get them quick) The turbo will cost major bucks. For only 320 hp, hardly worth the effort, nor worth losing the warranty. Unless the car will pass safty/emissions inspection, both visual and OBDII, it will NOT be licensed in many states, so the expenditure will be for a "trailer queen". The turbo Z was DESIGNED as a turbo car, not converted by a small shop. (that's true for the BMW, and the other factory turbo cars you mentioned) The turbo cars have many different engine parts, and other parts, from the non-turbo cars. The VQ engine has a lot of parts different from our cars, it is NOT "practically the same". Adding a turbo will increase combustion temps, and the exhaust valves may not be able to stand the heat. The new headers will have to be designed for the higher temps, too, and the higher heat under the hood will affect other parts. In the turbo Buick, the transmission was different, and beefier, as was the rear axle. How much power will the final drive, and the FWD transmissions in the Altima stand? The turbo Buicks had a different camshaft, and bearings, and crankshaft- even the engine block was different. The radiator is usually different on a turbo car, to handle the extra heat. The stock injectors are probably not big enough to handle much boost, and the stock fuel pump may not work either, since it will have to pump more volume at a higher pressure. And it will need a new fuel pressure regulator, and possible fuel lines, too. How about the stock ignition? Will it work on a boosted engine? I could go on and on and on, listing issues that you haven't thought of, but why bother?
Bottom line- this is going to be an expensive mod, and risky. It will DEFINITELY be "different" but whether it will be more functional is certainl up for discussion.

[missouriguy1973]

Originally Posted by Ormand

The turbo Z was DESIGNED as a turbo car, not converted by a small shop. (that's true for the BMW, and the other factory turbo cars you mentioned)

Last time I checked there was no "turbo Z" being produced right now...I'm talking about twin turbo 350z's that have aftermarket kits on them...the 350 wasn't designed for boost or it would have had stock turbos on it like the 300ZX's had...


As for cars not being built for boost, I know plenty of Camaros and Mustangs that were not built for boost (i.e. hyperuretic pistons and cast rods) that do just fine with a moderate amount of boost from superchargers and turbos...It's all in the tune and it's all in how much you want to push the engine....

For all the extra parts such as injectors, fuel pumps, etc, usually all that is included in a power adder kit to make it all work, or at least all the kits I've been around have been included...So yes, I know all of that goes along with a turbo...Duh, you can't just add a turbo, turn on the car and make it run right...

As for the warranty, who cares, my car is almost 2 years old, and that's 2/3rds the way through my warranty...Not that I'm going to turbo it in a year, but hey, warranty's are overrated anyways IMO...

[matt7400]

Well said Ormand. I'm making statements (stirring things up) to see just how much some of you really know about this topic. Some of you know much more than I and some of you need to understand your statements are silly. We all know everyones an expert on line, I'm looking for REAL info not hype.

[jason2922]

Originally Posted by Nissan4LIFE

Wow its great too see how much controversy can be stirred up with this thread but like I said. Its still their choice to do whatever they want. Ok, I've been to Z car shows here in SoCal where people put 800+ HP Chevy engines in their 240 and 280 Z's and put twin turbos on them and do you think they are concerned with relaibility. Some people who turbo their cars may not even be doing it to drive...they are simply doing it for the shows because they know they are flashy enough to win. I will give a perfect example to anyone who just was at the Nissan/Infinity day at Stillen this past weekend...The National Guard Altima Coupe which will have a full turbo kit and some of the flashiest cooling systems I've seen in a long time with clear coolant hoses, etc. Its all for show and you know some people can do that just because they want to. You guys really cannot knock someone for that otherwise what is the point for an aftermarket industry anyway. Otherwise shut the hell up because you all are blowing this waaaay out of proportion!

well said.

[jkgultimate]

Originally Posted by Ormand

If you want to build a slow 1/4 mile car, not drivable on the street, then yes, you are partly right. (most of the "tuners" are smart enough to start out with a light car, and they run LOTS of boost to get them quick) The turbo will cost major bucks. For only 320 hp, hardly worth the effort, nor worth losing the warranty. Unless the car will pass safty/emissions inspection, both visual and OBDII, it will NOT be licensed in many states, so the expenditure will be for a "trailer queen". The turbo Z was DESIGNED as a turbo car, not converted by a small shop. (that's true for the BMW, and the other factory turbo cars you mentioned) The turbo cars have many different engine parts, and other parts, from the non-turbo cars. The VQ engine has a lot of parts different from our cars, it is NOT "practically the same". Adding a turbo will increase combustion temps, and the exhaust valves may not be able to stand the heat. The new headers will have to be designed for the higher temps, too, and the higher heat under the hood will affect other parts. In the turbo Buick, the transmission was different, and beefier, as was the rear axle. How much power will the final drive, and the FWD transmissions in the Altima stand? The turbo Buicks had a different camshaft, and bearings, and crankshaft- even the engine block was different. The radiator is usually different on a turbo car, to handle the extra heat. The stock injectors are probably not big enough to handle much boost, and the stock fuel pump may not work either, since it will have to pump more volume at a higher pressure. And it will need a new fuel pressure regulator, and possible fuel lines, too. How about the stock ignition? Will it work on a boosted engine? I could go on and on and on, listing issues that you haven't thought of, but why bother?
Bottom line- this is going to be an expensive mod, and risky. It will DEFINITELY be "different" but whether it will be more functional is certainl up for discussion.

You are going a little extreme with your post. You make it sound like the VQ will last a few days before it blows under moderate boost.

Point one: Adding a turbo increases combustion temps

-Yeah your right. A FMIC will cool the charge from the turbocharger bringing the combustion temps down again. In addition, you add more fuel (Make the vehicle run richer) under boost to cool the combustion further.

Point two: The header may not handle the heat (First off, its not a header, its a exhaust manifold).

- When you strap on a turbo, you have to fabricate a custom one so the turbo can bolt on to it. Just build it from high quality metal and problem solved.

Point three: The radiator on a turbo car is different (Sometimes, not always). The Supra non-turbo radiator is the same as the turbo one.

- The stock radiator will be good enough, just add a higher pressure radiator cap. Like I said earlier, richen the a/f ratio and the FMIC will take care of the high combustion temps which ultimately lowers coolant temperatures as well.

Point four: VQ has a lot of different parts from our cars (Not SURE what you mean't b y this).

- Only down fall is that the VQ runs 10.3:1 compression ratio which is pretty high. The problem with this is you can't run a lot of boost. I would say 8 PSI at most to stay on the reliable side.

Point five: Why are you comparing the Altima to the buick. It is a totally different car.

The Altima's tranny and final drive will be perfectly fine. A DSM FWD transmission is garbage and people are pushing 450-500 WHP through it. The only problem the Altima will have is clutch issues. It will definitely start to slip so it will need to be upgraded. The CV shafts are another weak part, however, don't worry about them unless your going to do hard launches with SLICKS. On street tires, you will spin which takes the load off the CV shafts before you break one.

Point six: Fuel system needs to be changed

- Of course it does.

550cc fuel injectors: $320
AFPR (Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator): $240
Fuel pump (Walbro 255 LPH): $100
Some kind of tuning device to get a proper tune.
You do NOT need to change the fuel lines or fuel rail.

Point seven: What about the ignition?

- The turbo ignitions are no different than the N/A ignition. Only difference will be spark plugs which are usually gapped smaller to prevent blow outs.

All modern cars can push over 60,000 Volts which is plenty of voltage for forced induction. It is pretty much is a over kill for the N/A cars.

Emissions should not to effected under light loads. When you tune your car, you tune it lean for part throttle (Close to stock as possible) and than you tune it rich for WOT. On the emission tests, there is no WOT runs.

The motor still has a 10.3:1 compression ratio like factory and the a/f ratio will be very close to factory under light loads if you tune it properly.

TUNE TUNE TUNE! If you don't TUNE properly, NOTHING WILL WORK PROPERLY!

[Nissan4LIFE]

^^ Well said and I was waiting for someone to chime in like this.

[jkgultimate]

^^^I had to post something, soo many people didn't know what they were talking about.

I tune my own car and I built it, so I know a bit about forced induction and tuning.

[jason2922]

Originally Posted by jkgultimate

^^^I had to post something, soo many people didn't know what they were talking about.

I tune my own car and I built it, so I know a bit about forced induction and tuning.

darn good info above, thx.

[tooslow_4_u]

I couldnt read this entire thread. My head started to hurt after page 4.

Those of you who have never turboed a car that came N/A to begin with need to stop basing your thinking off what a magazine says. Talk to the fabricators and tuners for REAL answers.

as for the street legal aspects...NO! to make a car FULLY street legal, it has to be able to pass california emissions and inspections (strictest standards). Turboing any car that didnt come stock with a turbo will not pass. Same goes for upgrading parts on a car that came turboed, it wont pass, so technically its not street legal. Ill read the rest of the thread later and comment on what I read then. I just cant take anymore tonight.