Nissan Enthusiast Forums

tooslow_4_u · #46 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 01:50 AM

I already know about the weight of the wheels. But this isnt a race car, so im not concerned too much, I love how it looks. Remember, i went from stock 17s, to G35 Sedan 18s, to aftermarket 18" tuner wheels, to these 20s, and I cant go back to smaller wheels. 18s just dont cut it, and 19s arent my style. When I take it to the track (hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks) im putting the G's front 18s on the front wheels for the strip

Dexion · #47 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 02:24 AM

Wheels probably don't have much to do with it, I'm pretty sure they just underrated the engine. Its got the same exact stats as the 350z's engine (e-CVTCS on exhaust and 10.6:1 compression), just missing another inlet.

jkgultimate · #48 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexion

Wheels probably don't have much to do with it, I'm pretty sure they just underrated the engine. Its got the same exact stats as the 350z's engine (e-CVTCS on exhaust and 10.6:1 compression), just missing another inlet.

I guess you don't know much about rotational mass and how it affect your cars performance.

lets do some equations shall we?

Stock wheel /w tire: 40 pounds
20" chrome wheel /w tire 60 pounds
The difference: 20 pounds

Now times 20 pounds x 2 (front tires) which makes 40 pounds.

The basic law of rotational inertia is shaving a pound off a tire is equivlent shaving 2 pounds of non rotating weight.

So 40 pounds in the front is more like 80 pounds of unsprung weight. Thats just the FRONTs. Not to mention that the engine has a harder time turning that extra weight.

Now the rear is another 40 pounds which makes it 80 pounds of non rotating weight.

So Too_slow has 160 pounds of extra non-rotating mass which is pretty bad for performance. Thats equivlent of losing 12 BHP.

Lets say your car weighs 3300 pounds and makes 270 BHP. You run the 1/4 and you get a 14.2@100 MPH. Now if you add another 160 pounds which makes the total to 3460, you will need 282 BHP to move that mass through the 1/4 to pull similar times.

So you need 12 MORE BHP to bring the power to weight ratio to stock numbers.

I don't know, but I think thats a bit of a loss.

Sure the new motor has 10.6:1 compression ratio (Probably changed the headgasket or something). Sure it has variable valve timing on both valves, but it does weigh 350 pounds more.

The 20 BHP extra does not make up for the 350 pounds extra it carries. I don't think the Maxima is as underrated as you think. Intial tests show it do 14.5-14.6@96 MPH.

Maybe too_slows engine was heat soaked by then and the Maxima's wasn't?

Theres tons of variables, but on paper, the Altima has the edge and I haven't seen any of the new Maximas beat my 1/4 time.

fishbone · #49 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 05:16 PM

jgkultimate, you could have made your arguments by simply pointing out the reason why people get lightweight pulleys in the first place. Pulleys, wheels, same thing

jkgultimate · #50 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbone

jgkultimate, you could have made your arguments by simply pointing out the reason why people get lightweight pulleys in the first place. Pulleys, wheels, same thing

Neva!!!!! FISHBONE!!!

LOL,

You should know me by now. I am very detail orientated!

When I make a point; I really make a point. This way, everyone will understand it. Some people may not know why they get lighten pulleys (You know theres ricers out there that like it for the colors).

tooslow_4_u · #51 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 06:57 PM

I had the UR Pulley on my old Altima, and it was black. And you couldnt see it. But it made a nice difference when the nitrous hit!

But for day to day driving, Im not willing to sacrifice style for performance. Its just not worth it to me.

jkgultimate · #52 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooslow_4_u

I had the UR Pulley on my old Altima, and it was black. And you couldnt see it. But it made a nice difference when the nitrous hit!

But for day to day driving, Im not willing to sacrifice style for performance. Its just not worth it to me.

Everyone has their preferences and I respect that you like style more then performance.

My comment really wasn't towards you, I was just using your nice rims as an example of robbing performance. I know you don't really care, but DEXION thinks that the new Maxima is "Sooo underated". Not sure why he thinks Nissan REALLY underrated the engine. I am sure it probably dynos 245-250 WHP stock at most because the 96-97 MPH traps are not showing any underrating to me.

The new Maxima is more powerful then the Altima, but the Altima has less weight.

Dexion · #53 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 11:05 PM

Yes the 20"s are probably hurting it. I didnt think the stock rims were that heavy though, I thought I heard somewhere they actually weigh less than the 3rd gen's 17"s.

If you're equation is right however I can see why he couldn't outrun the Maxima. Even if he's a bit heavier the fujita should be good for 15 at the crank, so 285hp (extra rotational mass aside its still a 3600lbs car vs a 3300lbs car) vs 290hp but he still couldn't outrun him. Unless he was shifting lazily and the CVT kept up with him, who knows. We all know magazine testers can't drive.

I can't wait to run into one myself.

fishbone · #54 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkgultimate

Some people may not know why they get lighten pulleys (You know theres ricers out there that like it for the colors).

No kidding! I'm all about stealth though. My pulley looks damn close to stock, same color etc although I could have gone with a BRIGHT RED one. Same way, my TMIC is a Perrin painted black from factory rather than the bare metal. Unless you take the engine cover off OR you look closely, you can't even tell it's there.

jkgultimate · #55 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexion

Yes the 20"s are probably hurting it. I didnt think the stock rims were that heavy though, I thought I heard somewhere they actually weigh less than the 3rd gen's 17"s.

If you're equation is right however I can see why he couldn't outrun the Maxima. Even if he's a bit heavier the fujita should be good for 15 at the crank, so 285hp (extra rotational mass aside its still a 3600lbs car vs a 3300lbs car) vs 290hp but he still couldn't outrun him. Unless he was shifting lazily and the CVT kept up with him, who knows. We all know magazine testers can't drive.

I can't wait to run into one myself.

Yes, it is a 3300 poud car with 285 BHP, but you can't compare it like that. It was really a 3460 pound car VS 3600 pound car. The power to weight ratio is closer then you think.

If too_slow has been driving for a longer period of time, his engine might have heat soaked already which doesn't help his case.

I can't wait to run into one of them and put them in their place

**Leathe of Heaven** · #56 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 04:41 AM

Stop with the ricer excuses! HE LOST! Deal with it! The 4th gen isn't the fastest Nissan out there, even stock. You make it sound like it's IMPOSSIBLE for the 4th gen to lose!

tooslow_4_u · #57 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 05:34 AM

oh oh, the 3rd gen 2.5SE-R is putting in his .02 of rice. BTW, I have no problems admitting If I lose a race. Run what you brung, if you lose...You lose

jimnolimit · #58 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishbone

my TMIC is a Perrin painted black

why did you go with a top mount instead of a front mount ?

jkgultimate · #59 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leathe of Heaven

Stop with the ricer excuses! HE LOST! Deal with it! The 4th gen isn't the fastest Nissan out there, even stock. You make it sound like it's IMPOSSIBLE for the 4th gen to lose!

I guess you didn't read the original post properly!

How is "We were neck to neck in 5th gear until we shut it off" a LOSS?

Go get your glasses checked! I know what happend and I get it now. Your such a ricer, you put SER badges on both of your eye glass lenses and couldn't see properly.

fishbone · #60 (**permalink**) 07-20-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimnolimit

why did you go with a top mount instead of a front mount ?

Because this top mount is plenty for the stock turbo, even some aftermarket ones. They're way larger than the stock TMIC and move twice the volume of air, folks are pushing 20PSI on the stock turbo and aftermarket ones. The consensus is you can use a TMIC but if you go with a much bigger aftermarket turbo, then it's time for a FMIC. For me this was a better investment since it was cheaper and I don't plan to go with a bigger turbo for a while still. The Perrin TMICs are rated good for around 400hp.
Plus, I like the hood scoop