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'03 Altima Alternator Insanity

17007 Views 22 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  Adam444, 
d0ugmac1
'03 Altima Alternator Insanity (3.5L Gen 3 alternator)

This isn't a question, just a summary of everything that can happen as your alternator slowly dies....

The first hint that something was up was when I suddenly lost accelerator pedal control of the engine--guy behind was NOT impressed. Engine would idle fine and limp forward in first gear, but any attempt to accelerate would result in a short increase in RPMs, followed by both the Brake and ABS lights illuminating. You would be forgiven for not immediately identifying the alternator as the culprit at this point! I tried all the usual things, shut off the car, restarted it, same issue again and again. Then I noticed that it started happening much sooner from start up with the A/C off...hmmm...OK, so I put the front defog on MAX (AC clutch engaged, blower fan at max) and it ran just fine, got me all the way home in rush hour traffic. OK, off to google the forums...

Took a while, but I found an obscure post here. Ok, makes sense, but why the battery light showed no issue, who knows. In short, if you keep the electrical load high, then the alternator can never push the battery to that magic 17.4V point and the ECU won't put the engine into safety mode. I drove it to work for a few more days like this--as I had a million things going on.

Then I went on vacation for a couple of weeks, and when I came back, the battery was completely, 0V dead! Lovely--figures. Charged it up overnight...connected the battery and bam...alarm goes off. Ok, it was early and the coffee hadn't hit the system yet, but, never set your alarm, remove the battery and then open the driver door via the key. To reset alarm, just unlock and relock using the key...all will be fine. Left it at work for 8hrs...battery so low I couldn't even pop the trunk...grrr. Bummed a boost and after some initial hiccups was able to drive home again.

Figured I'd better debug this puppy soon. Got the old multimeter out and popped the hood. Measured the parasitic drain using the ammeter function (0-10A range just to be safe). Lo, it was pulling 2.3A just sitting there. Sounds like a bunch of other posts out there, like this one. Okay, pulled all the fuses and links in the fusible link box adjacent to the battery...not much change. Ok... removed the two plugs from the bottom of the +ve battery terminal assembly...no change. Removed the heavy cable, attached by a 12mm nut on the inboard side of the +ve connector assembly...Viola!....current drops to 'normal levels'. A note on 'normal levels' which for this car is about 70mA (0.07A) steady state. When you first connect the battery a number of systems power up and then slowly go back to sleep over the first 20-30seconds...so keep the ammeter in the loop and wait... For those not used to measuring current draw, you must put the ammeter in series between the negative battery post and the negative battery cable as the power must flow through the meter to be measured (exception is if you have an 'amp clamp' style meter in which case you just clamp it around the -ve cable).

Continuity test verified that this was the main power cable from the Alternator (B terminal). Great, so now, not only is my alternator charging like there is no tomorrow, when it ain't charging it's sucking the life out of my battery. Ok, so now I am quite comfortable that the Alty's Alty is the issue.

Ordered one from RockAuto...taking a chance on the $120 Pure Energy...like why would I pay more for a reman of the same POS Hitachi OEM that caused all this in the first place?!? Managing the car by removing the -ve battery cable when not driving.

More fun this morning...had a trickle charger on it overnight...must have peaked the battery or something. Started it and the RPM's kept cycling up and down with the Brake and Battery lights flashing in syncopation. Frick me. Okay...tried the full Defog trick...no dice. Shut off engine. Curse. Ok, maybe if battery voltage too high...turned on headlights for 2 minutes and restarted car...now runs normally again. Put defog on and head to work...get there okay.

Waiting for alternator to show up...should be here tomorrow. Researched some 'How to Vids' because that sucker is wedged in there pretty tight. FYI there are some very BAD videos on YouTube...like the dude with the chopsticks. Apparently the shop manual method is to remove the passenger front wheel, the inner plastic shield, loosen the belt tensioner and remove the belt, remove the battery cover, and now drain and remove the cooling fans and the rad. Use cardboard to protect the AC condensor from tools and bouncing alternators. Once you get that sucker off, remove the top bolt from above and drop the alternator out the bottom of the engine compartment. A liberal application of PB Blaster or your favourite alternative is recommended. This will apparently take at least 2 hours and I am budgeting more like 3-4hours for my first time and all those 12 year old bolts... Fortunately I replaced the V-belt earlier this year so I have half an idea what I'm getting into.

More as the situation progresses.
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d0ugmac1
Okay, done. Wasn't that bad, but could have been mitigated by the warranty engine replacement 6 years ago...or the AC hose replacement 3 years back...so my bolts weren't really 12 years rusted :) I took it super slow, probably about 5-6hrs including breaks and an hour spent 'un-seizing the rad mount bolts and the grounding lug on the alternator bracket). My motto is "If you don't break it, then you don't have to fix it too".

Yes, you do have to remove the rad...grrr. In my case that meant removing the battery plastic cover, then the rad fans, then the rad itself. Be careful trying to take out the rad as one piece...hard on the cooling fins on the driver side!

Some key sites:
Shulsey's PICtorial


Herman's blog

Best tip (other than PB blasting everything) was to use needle nose pliers for the lower bolt. I was able to get it back in place in under 10 minutes...basic idea is grip the long bolt just above the threaded section in an almost straight line with the needle nose tips...you can manoeuver the bolt under the alternator body (which is hanging from just the top bolt), straight towards the engine block, and then use a second long screwdriver to 'steer' the tabbed end of the bolt around and in behind the precat (so now the bolt and needle nose tips are close to 90'). You can now manipulate the alternator body back and forth and the end of the bolt up and down with the pliers until you get the tip of the bolt just into the first keyway of the alternator housing...slowly relax your whitenuckle grip on the bolt, then slide the needle tips slightly further to the head of the bolt and with a firm grip, apply some pressure to the bolt against the alternator bracket as you wiggle it back and forth...the bolt will soon align and slide into the bracket and you can finish off pushing and wiggling the bolt all the way through.

Good idea to remove the idler pully as a unit by pinching it between your fingers then push a pen or pencil through the hole and place the lock nut on the 'outside' of the wheel...makes reassembly so much easier since you don't have to guess at the orientation of all those pieces. Other thing I did was to stuff some cardboard in behind the idler pulley bolt head during reassembly, as it spins when it pushes back out of the adjuster frame and makes tightening it impossible.

RedSkunk

Also, see the @redskunk thread for a great pictorial how-to
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M-train
Thanks for posting this as I'm sure it will help others some day, maybe even me if I continue to mess with these cars.

Also, Nissan didn't make it too much fun to remove the alt from the 2.5l engines as one of the fuse box's is right in the way of getting the long alt bolt out.

When I rebuilt the engine, I cut a hole in the fuse bracket [Nissan COULD HAVE DONE THIS], so the bolt is easy to get out without removing the whole damned fuse box.

Also, I had a couple come look at an Altima I have for sale, and I noticed that with the AC fan on the number 3 speed the engine would almost die at idle. So, I'm going to test the alt this afternoon when it gets cooler.
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B
M-train said:
Thanks for posting this as I'm sure it will help others some day, maybe even me if I continue to mess with these cars.

Also, Nissan didn't make it too much fun to remove the alt from the 2.5l engines as one of the fuse box's is right in the way of getting the long alt bolt out.

When I rebuilt the engine, I cut a hole in the fuse bracket [Nissan COULD HAVE DONE THIS], so the bolt is easy to get out without removing the whole damned fuse box.

Also, I had a couple come look at an Altima I have for sale, and I noticed that with the AC fan on the number 3 speed the engine would almost die at idle. So, I'm going to test the alt this afternoon when it gets cooler.
Click to expand...
All you have to do is pull unscrew the coolant reservoir, pull the fuse box up and take off 2 bolts that hold the fuse bracket in. Not too bad really.
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d0ugmac1
Broke said:
All you have to do is pull unscrew the coolant reservoir, pull the fuse box up and take off 2 bolts that hold the fuse bracket in. Not too bad really.
Click to expand...
that's only applicable to the 2.5..no point messing with the fuse box on the 3.5 setup.
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M-train
Broke said:
All you have to do is pull unscrew the coolant reservoir, pull the fuse box up and take off 2 bolts that hold the fuse bracket in. Not too bad really.
Click to expand...
I know this, but it really wouldn't be necessary had Nissan just notched the fuse box.
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1trucavalier
Good info thanks!
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Sideways the Seven
Great write-up, thank you!

Issue I'm having is with the bottom bolt on the alternator. I guess I'll try some PB Blaster on it (not sure why I hadn't done that already) before I round the bolt completely off, put the tire back, roll it back out into the street, and set the whole thing on fire.
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d0ugmac1
Sideways the Seven said:
Great write-up, thank you!

Issue I'm having is with the bottom bolt on the alternator. I guess I'll try some PB Blaster on it (not sure why I hadn't done that already) before I round the bolt completely off, put the tire back, roll it back out into the street, and set the whole thing on fire.
Click to expand...
So your issue is with getting the sucker broken loose in the first place? I assume it's frozen and not spinning, correct? I actually went out and bought a set of those closed ratcheting wrenches...14mm I think was the actual size needed...as that bolt head is jammed between the alternator and the steel C channel frame member, so standard sockets are not an option and open-end wrenches won't cut it.


A little bit of heat on the bolt, a little pipe on the wrench...and she came free.

If memory serves, that bolt traverses a pretty long section of aluminum casting, so if it's all corroded up in there, getting that bolt up to temp should help break the corrosion free, 'specially if you hit both ends of it with a good penetrating oil.
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Sideways the Seven
d0ugmac1 said:
So your issue is with getting the sucker broken loose in the first place? I assume it's frozen and not spinning, correct? I actually went out and bought a set of those closed ratcheting wrenches...14mm I think was the actual size needed...as that bolt head is jammed between the alternator and the steel C channel frame member, so standard sockets are not an option and open-end wrenches won't cut it.


A little bit of heat on the bolt, a little pipe on the wrench...and she came free.

If memory serves, that bolt traverses a pretty long section of aluminum casting, so if it's all corroded up in there, getting that bolt up to temp should help break the corrosion free, 'specially if you hit both ends of it with a good penetrating oil.
Click to expand...
Correct, frozen. I actually have some of those ratcheting wrenches, but how are you getting enough space to get a pipe in there. Hmmm... Maybe I should try some heat on it. First, though, I'll try the PB Blaster since I have some of that, but no torch. Yet.
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d0ugmac1
Sideways the Seven said:
Correct, frozen. I actually have some of those ratcheting wrenches, but how are you getting enough space to get a pipe in there. Hmmm...
Click to expand...
Well, he says like it's completely normal to have to drain and remove not only your radiator, but your battery and also your passenger wheel and plastic shielding in order to replace your alternator....

You did remove the wheel and the plastic cover that protect the crank pulley et al? Because if you didn't, you will be having one ginormous biatch of a time.

So the short answer is from passenger wheel well. Ratchet goes up and to the right onto the bolt, and that leaves enough room to put a minor extender on the ratcheting wrench which gives you some room to work. I turned the steering full right to get the caliper even farther away from where my knuckles might go.

I also removed the tensioner pulley wheel which gives you more side access in to where the alternator bolt is and I definitely used that ratcheting wrench on that bolt because it's made of silver cheese and you really don't want to round it off.
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d0ugmac1
You should be able see that nut, as shown in these pics series (from redskunk)

Specifically this one, that's it just above the round counterweight on the AC pulley (and beside the somewhat shiny tensioner bolt)

I think my memory is failing...used the 14mm closed ratchet on the tensioner bolt, but may have used a socket on the alternator nut...doesn't look like I could have used the wrench again.
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Sideways the Seven
Yes, I removed the wheel, fender liner, etc. When I pulled the alternator at the boneyard, I realized that was the best (only) way to do it. I'll try to get that ratcheting wrench on it again this evening to break it loose. It just didn't seem like there was enough room between where the wrench would go and the compressor to turn a wrench. It's already a little rounded, but I can still get a pretty good grip on it.
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d0ugmac1
Sideways the Seven said:
Yes, I removed the wheel, fender liner, etc. When I pulled the alternator at the boneyard, I realized that was the best (only) way to do it. I'll try to get that ratcheting wrench on it again this evening to break it loose. It just didn't seem like there was enough room between where the wrench would go and the compressor to turn a wrench. It's already a little rounded, but I can still get a pretty good grip on it.
Click to expand...
Ok, let us know how it works out. I may have used one of these (3/8" drive) with a short 6-sided 14mm socket to break loose. Socket on first, then insert the flex breaker bar. 1/2" version is too chunky.

Don't use the 12 point sockets...they allow too much slip and chance to round.
+
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d0ugmac1
Oh, and you can use a prybar to make sure the socket is firmly seated all the way down to the nut flange before inserting the breaker.
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d0ugmac1
Bump! You get this done yet?
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Sideways the Seven
Lol! Nope. Wrench is slipping so I broke out my bolt extractor set.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
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Sideways the Seven
Done and done! Finally got it off with the bolt extractor and a helper with the crowbar. Now to get a replacement and some anti-seize.


Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
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d0ugmac1
^^Yeah baby!

BTW Do NOT lose that stupid tang/clip piece still on the bolt in the pic above, or you will never be able to tighten OR more importantly remove that bolt again.
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Sideways the Seven
Swap complete. Once I figured out getting that bottom bolt lined up from the bottom, it was a piece of cake. Just in time to throw it back together and full it back up with antifreeze before our temp drop from 72* this afternoon to 21* tonight. I really appreciate all the help, man!

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
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