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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have read every post written online about the issue. I removed the head for a valve job, put it all back but cleaned the flap inside the throttle body also connected the battery with the throttle body removed. Long story short I put everything back and revving rpm 1k to 2k non stop. When cold it goes to 3k rpm. So I tried every possible combo and cannot get it to relearn. Took it to a shop with the latest 20k Snap-On computer tester, no go. So the guy sais get a throttle body, so I bought a new one from EBay. I tried the relearning myself but still cannot get it to work:
Did this one:
2004 Nissan Altima, P0507 Surging / High Idle
Even tried this one:
How to:ECU Reset,Throttle & Accelerator Position Learning - Nissan Titan Forum I get the 507 code I reset and do the procedure. No go.
Now I tried the second one from above but this time I did the Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning and after doing ON and Off for 10 seconds the THROTTLE VALVE FLAP NEVER MOVED for the 10 seconds. What can it be? Help guys and I know there are threads on this but they didn't help. Thanks in advance.
 

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If you have a scan tool try clearing the codes with it and trying again. I am assuming that you did the relearn procedures correctly and if that is the case then the ebay throttle body is trash. For future reference never buy a throttle body from ebay if you can help it. The local junkyard is your friend. Even at the junkyard I had to go through 3 tb before one worked, but they have an exchange policy. Gl
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The one I bought was from a seller that sold many of this exact one and no complaints. I am not saying you're not right. Why did you have to change 3 of them? Did the good one act any different before the relearn right after install, like rpm more stable which allowed you to do the relearn? Mine just revvs up and down. And doesn't take the relearn, but again when I do the Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning the plate doesn't move at all. Did yours do the same thing? How did you get the RPM to stay at around 700 to do the relearn. Mine doesn't even if I unplug 2 coils still 1k. Sorry for the million questions but I need some input to compare. Let me know and thanks in advance.
 

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The broken throttle bodies did the exact same thing that you mentioned. They caused codes to be thrown and would not idle correctly. Once I got a working tb I simply cleared the codes and redid the relearn procedures and it worked. Make sure to clear the codes before doing the relearn or else it might not accept it. When I had the bad tb nothing I did would get it to idle at 700 ( I tried the coil trick also).

See if the ebay seller will work with you on a verified working part for exchange ( I hope you didn't pay too much for it).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
It's new and I think it's after market. I had them send me a second also to double check. On it's way.
Funny thing is that I bought one from AutoZone, it was a Hitachi just like the OEM one I had. That didn't work either.
Did you just do the Idle Air Volume Learning Procedure or Accelerator Pedal Released Position Learning Procedure and Throttle Valve Closed Position Learning. They say if you disconnected the harness to do all 3. I suspect there is another issue here. Even if it's a piece of junk it should do the relearn and then fail. There's no way it just doesn't work period. If it was used maybe because someone may have played with it. This is the only car I ever fixed with this issue. And it was fine before the head job. Don't know why I didn't read before cleaning the butterfly flap. I just hope the harness or the ECM is not at fault.
Again the flap doesn't move on the second relearn test. It fully moves if I depress the accelerator with the ignition to on position. But no movement on the second test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So back to your experience when you put a better used one you say the car was able to do 700rpm without unplugging any coils? And then you did the relearn?
 

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So back to your experience when you put a better used one you say the car was able to do 700rpm without unplugging any coils? And then you did the relearn?
Here is what I did exactly, first I took a drive to the junkyard which brought the car to operating temperature. I took off the broken tb and put the good working one on. I used my code reader to erase the codes without starting the car again. Then I did the idle relearn procedures followed by starting the car. I did not unplug any coils during this process. Upon starting the car within a couple of seconds it immediately adjusted correctly and stayed there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow so you just went from 1k to 2k engine revving and you didn't have to bring the running RPM close to 700 rpm to do the relearn? You're lucky.
 

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For myself and most others that have cleaned their tb and had this issue swapping out the tb almost always fixes it. With a properly functioning tb you should not have to manually lower the rpm to 700 for it to stick. A member here once plugged in a new tb without doing any procedures and it worked.
 

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One thing I can tell you from experience is that if you don't have a digital watch to count the seconds the relearn won't work.

I tried several times doing the relearn procedure using the one Mississippi, two miss, three miss, etc, and it just didn't work.

I bought a cheap wrist watch, and got idle relearn right the first time.
 

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One thing I can tell you from experience is that if you don't have a digital watch to count the seconds the relearn won't work.

I tried several times doing the relearn procedure using the one Mississippi, two miss, three miss, etc, and it just didn't work.

I bought a cheap wrist watch, and got idle relearn right the first time.
/\ This. I used my wrist watch and got it on the second try. You have to be SPOT ON with your timing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just wanted to say that I did purchase a new throttle bod from EBay and took it to the dealer for the ECM recall programming and the relearn and it worked like a charm. Best $120 ever spent. It was a damn headache to do this on my own and I guess not all throttle bodies take the manual relearn. I personally think the ECM reprogramming was the one that helped the car have a successful relearn Who knows. Car runs smooth but when I press the gas to go fast I hear a noise in the catalytic converter as if it's struggling to go but it does go. I will have to measure the pressure at the oxygen sensor.
 

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If you're not in an state that checks emissions I might just put a header on the exhaust, and get rid of that factory pre cat as it causes lots of trouble on these engines.

I know Nissan supposedly worked the pre cat issue out, but since it doesn't do anything beneficial to the engine, but could cause major damage, then it would go, and did go on my engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was thinking about it but I live in L.A. and emissions are strict. When I suddenly accelerate I feel like it want's to take of but it struggles just a bit, not much and you get the hollow sound in the exhaust. I just recently did a head job which started the whole relearn ordeal, so the engine is good I will look into it. The ECM reflash is causing the dash lights to stay on for a few after the car is off. That's new. And of course the relearn is now possible. The timing had nothing to do with the outcome of the relearn, lots of mechanics have tried and failed with scanners ranging from $800 to a 10k Snap-On. The issue was the ECM reflash.
 

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If you're not in an state that checks emissions I might just put a header on the exhaust, and get rid of that factory pre cat as it causes lots of trouble on these engines.

I know Nissan supposedly worked the pre cat issue out, but since it doesn't do anything beneficial to the engine, but could cause major damage, then it would go, and did go on my engine.
Does anyone know what Nissan actually did from the early generation 2002-2004 Altimas to change the precat? I have a 2006 Altima 2.5 S and was under the impression that Nissan really didn't do anything to change the precat issue to prevent cat dust getting sucked back into the engine. I had to change both my cats and 2 O2 sensors at total cost of $2400 along with changing the damn faulty camshaft position sensor( that was damaging the cats) that Nissan should have changed 10 years ago off of the factory floor, but I hope and pray I saved my engine. If there really is a precat issue of being too close to the exhaust manifold then every 3rd generation Altima is at risk. I suspect that the cat has to be restricted(damaged enuf to cause significant back pressure) before stuff will get sucked back into the engine. At least that is what I am praying for. I will always inspect my cats routinely. I wont let this issue rest until I get to the bottom of it. I have sent an email to one of the foremost specialists on cataslytic converters in the US. If he doesn't reply I also have his phone number. I have read this forum cover to cover on my generation of Altimas and am still confused over the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi mine has 139k on it I did the head recently but have not changed the cats yet. 2400 for it is a bit to much for my taste, you can find the who;e car for that amount. I had the issue with the O2 sensor code(P0420) but I bought the spark plug non-fouler and used that trick which it worked just fine. If you want to know that there is restriction in a cat converter you have to remove the upper O2 sensore and measure PSI at the opening, it has to be 5 or below. I had another car that read 2k and when they took out the cat it was 100% plugged up. As far as changing the cat in the 06 Altima it would have been better to by the off the market headers and replace the precat and whenever you need smog you just swap them, if you can. $2400 is way too much for a completely devalued car. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
On a side note my Altima makes a rattling noise at first start which goes away within 2 seconds, it rattles like a slap rattle but fast. It also does it when at idle I accelerate to 2k RPM and slowly accelerate to 3k. After 3k it dies down. I already replaced the timing chain and all accessories when I did the head. Could the chain tensioner or the slack guide cause it? Could the valves themselves cause it, also doubt it. What about the Intake Valve Timing Control Solenoid Valve, don't know if they rattle? Can't think of anything else that can cause a rattle. If anybody can help I would appreciate it.
 

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On a side note my Altima makes a rattling noise at first start which goes away within 2 seconds, it rattles like a slap rattle but fast. It also does it when at idle I accelerate to 2k RPM and slowly accelerate to 3k. After 3k it dies down. I already replaced the timing chain and all accessories when I did the head. Could the chain tensioner or the slack guide cause it? Could the valves themselves cause it, also doubt it. What about the Intake Valve Timing Control Solenoid Valve, don't know if they rattle? Can't think of anything else that can cause a rattle. If anybody can help I would appreciate it.
I know that if you rubber mallet a cat that has loose honeycomb in it that it will rattle. Not sure if that could be your problem but I finally got the definitive answer on the precat issue. By the way I spent 2400 on new cats cause my car has only 76000 kilometres or 47000 miles. It will last a good many years yet as long as I keep the ignition and combustion components working as they should. I telephoned Dr. Ron Heck PHD Mechanical Engineering and developer of the many catalytic converters you see on the road. He worked for Engelhard Corporation for 31 years developing catalytic converters. I asked him about the precat issue. He told me that as long as there is no restriction in the exhaust system that the back pressure is not high enough for anything to get sucked back into the engine even on cam overlap. The stories we see about old Altimas dying because of scored cylinders are Altimas that had burning oil problems which will kill cats or cats otherwise plugged because of long term too rich combustion. There is no connection between how close the cat is to the exhaust manifold and engine damage. If the combustion is fine then the cats will be fine. I will periodically check my new precat just in case. It just bugs me that there were never any codes all those years that the camshaft position sensor was causing the engine to run rich and slowly poisoning the cats. Oh well lesson learned. Why can't the car manufacturers provide dashboard monitoring of the stoichiometric combustion number and exhaust temperature along with other combustion numbers to tell us car owners that everything is running fine. We cant always tell by engine sound or DTC codes or SES lights especially if the system doesn't trigger any codes because of lax OBDII standards. We are in the computer age and the car manufacturers are only in the computer age cause they were dragged kicking and screaming by the California Air Resources Board who threatened them with no car sales in Californis unless they came up with a sytem to abate pollution on cars. Thus the era of catalytic converters was born. But as always the car companies dominated the OBD committees to water down the standards thus we have the OBDII standard which has as many holes in it as a working sieve. They have consistently done as little as possible in providing us consumers with any info on our cars especially dashboard info. We have had the internet for 25 years and personal computers for 50 years and still, car dashboard info is
a joke.
 

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Then how does Dr Heck explain the presence of ceramic dust in the oil of affected Nissan engines?

Perhaps Dr Heck should consult with some of his colleagues, maybe those specializing in fluid dynamics, on the possibility of 'swirl' in the exhaust probabistically permitting catalytic material to be present anywhere inside the exhaust manifold, including adjacent to the exhaust valve during overlap.

I also have my own concerns about how to flush the abrasive grit (catalytic material) out of the engine once it gets in and stuck to all the tars and varnishes it finds in there.
 
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