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Discussion Starter #1
My car had developed a shifter problem. It's beginning to get hard to get the car into first and reverse, especially first. It just isn't smooth at all, and sometimes it really doesn't want to go in at all. Sometimes I end up putting it into neutral, taking my foot off the clutch, reengaging the clutch, and I am then able to put it into first or reverse without having to force it too much.

Is this a sign of a failing transmission or is it the clutch? Where do I start?
 

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could just be the cold. mine is tough going into first so I either double clutch, which is slow, or I press the clutch in, grab 2nd, then 1st and off I go!
 

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make sure the pedal is adjusted right. also if 90wt. fluid was added, itll be too thick when its cold. i think its supposed to have 75- 80 wt.
 

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If you ever taken off with spinning tires, there is a good chance you destroyed the synchronizers of the first gear.
That's what happened to my old Stanza. I used to take off hard - 5000 RPM, then let the clutch go and burn tires for 4 seconds...

Next time I changed fluid, I basically lost first gear. It just wouldn't hold there, also there was no resistance when switching to second.

I would make sure its got fluid, and see how it does later. Be easy on the tranny. Original one is not meant to be driven hard. It's a family sedan.

Here is the link to the burn out movie of my stanza. A lot better with sound!

http://www.angelfire.com/al2/misha18male5/images/go.mpg
 

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witheverylight said:
My car had developed a shifter problem. It's beginning to get hard to get the car into first and reverse, especially first. It just isn't smooth at all, and sometimes it really doesn't want to go in at all. Sometimes I end up putting it into neutral, taking my foot off the clutch, reengaging the clutch, and I am then able to put it into first or reverse without having to force it too much.

Is this a sign of a failing transmission or is it the clutch? Where do I start?
In the happyest of cases it could be that you're only low on fluid-check immediately the level in the tranny and for any traces of leaks. Worst case scenario: your 1st gear synchro is kaput.
If you can't fix the tranny right away it might help if you get used to putting it in 3rd or 2nd gear first(which ever you consider easier), and then WITHOUT lifting the foot off the clutch put in 1st so you can start moving.
It might also help if you change the tranny oil to Redline MT-90 http://www.redlineoil.com/whyredline.htm

Let us know what you did to it in the end.
 

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Another possibility, because I had the same problem recently....I don't know the techie terms or anything, but basically my problem was the way I shifted....I tended to shift rather forcefully(I clutched all the way down and basically yanked the stick into the gear), and eventually what happened was that the rod that the shifter is connected to(in the tranny), would hit the side wall of it's channel. I relaxed my throws a bit, and haven't had a problem since. All I do now is the initial motion, and the let the shifting do use it's own force, and the problem is virtually gone.

Just something else to consider
 

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Taking off in gear can in no way damage the syncronizers !!!!! The syncros arent even doing anything once it is in gear ...

The problem sounds like a Hydraulic problem , clutch master or slave , or the clutch is just getting worn !!
 

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The reverse thing is normal.it even mentions it in the manual.The remedy is just as you are doing,go back into nuetral,let off clutch,depress clutch and re-insert back into reverse.It even did it to me whent he car was brand (sigh) new.:)

The going into 1st problem sometimes happens to me when the car is extremely cold.I just follow the same steps as reverse.

I dont think you have a problem.:)
 

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SHAWN said:
The problem sounds like a Hydraulic problem , clutch master or slave , or the clutch is just getting worn !!
so, what's the diagnostic procedure? i have the same issue. included at no extra charge, in my case however, is that second will "grind" if i pull it too hard into second. please don't say, just pull softer, because i do that, and it takes care of it, but when other people drive my car they do it too. would that be a syncro?
 

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Shawn wrote :
Taking off in gear can in no way damage the syncronizers !!!!! The syncros arent even doing anything once it is in gear ...

The problem sounds like a Hydraulic problem , clutch master or slave , or the clutch is just getting worn !!

Shawn, you have so much experience and u still dont know what synchronizers do??

Synchronizers synchronize the speed of the clutch with the speed of the flywheel. Therefore, when you engage flywheel with the clutch quickly( that's what happenes when you take off hard), the speed from the flywheel, which is great speed and high momentum, suddenly transfer to the clutch. Synchronizers work when you are engaging transmission with the engine, not when it's in gear, obviosly.
 

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inoplanetyanin said:
Shawn, you have so much experience and u still dont know what synchronizers do??

Synchronizers synchronize the speed of the clutch with the speed of the flywheel. Therefore, when you engage flywheel with the clutch quickly( that's what happenes when you take off hard), the speed from the flywheel, which is great speed and high momentum, suddenly transfer to the clutch. Synchronizers work when you are engaging transmission with the engine, not when it's in gear, obviosly.
Sorry dude... but you have no right to be crackin' on Shawn, because you don't know WTF you're talking about. Synchros have NOTHING to do with the clutch or flywheel.

...and you're a mechanical engineering student?

Educate yourself here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm
 

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Amen Poe99SE ........

You took the words out of my mouth.....
H.
 

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A synchro's purpose is to allow the collar and the gear to make frictional contact before the dog teeth make contact. This lets the collar and the gear synchronize their speeds before the teeth need to engage, like this:

PLease notice, it says, ur simple old how stuff works server says:

THIS LETS the colla and gear S Y N C H R O N I Z E their speeds.
Please open ur eyes and read my upper message again.
Why the hell else to synchronize the speed if not to engage it with the engine?????????????


Idiots...
 

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Synchronizeres were invented of course to illuminate double shifting, which was very comon in the old days and still comon on some big old trucks, which is putting the shifter in neutral and reapplying the clutch in oreder to protect moving parts of the transmission from destroying caused by sudden engagin of parts turning at different speeds.
If I don't use exact the same word,

U are ready to screm and swear, if u claim ur english is so much better than mine, imagine how my russian is better than urs...

And back to the point of the original message.
If you shift quickly and turning the engine at high revolutions, as well as taking off suddenly - that's what destroyes the synchronizers.

Let's wait till the guy diagnozes his problems and we will see what caused them in the first place.
 

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If you have something against Mechanical engineering, you are the one to blame for it....

It's ineed a hard filed, and if you never studied calculus and physics, all you have left is being pissed of at people like me.

If not Mechanical engineers, you would still be riding the horse...

I wonder to know what u study.. if anything...
it's easy to scream over the internet being ignorant lazy, weak minded wossy boy, who wears his pants too high.

ehhhhh trivial people, maybe I should introduce myself to the ignoring possibilites here... :p

Peace :D
 

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Sheesh.....

inoplanetyanin said:
If you have something against Mechanical engineering, you are the one to blame for it....

It's ineed a hard filed, and if you never studied calculus and physics, all you have left is being pissed of at people like me.

If not Mechanical engineers, you would still be riding the horse...

I wonder to know what u study.. if anything...
it's easy to scream over the internet being ignorant lazy, weak minded wossy boy, who wears his pants too high.

ehhhhh trivial people, maybe I should introduce myself to the ignoring possibilites here... :p

Peace :D
Calm down doode...you're going to give yourself a heart attack.
Piece of advice for you: in order to avoid getting piled on, in the future use phrases like-IMHO or perhaps "Allow me to disagree"
instead of the very presumptious "Shawn, you have so much experience and u still dont know what synchronizers do??"
It makes you sound really pompous and like a I-know-it-all prick!
H.
 

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Horatio.
Thanks for advice. I agree with you.

But I can't stand swearing, especially in my address. Anyone who does that may not hope for me being polite back...

It's that simple.
Be nice and people will be nice back.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well I don't race or anything, so I never have real hard starts, sometimes when I want to accelerate quickly I'll shift quickly obviously, but I never chirp or burn out my tires. It doesn't seem very likely that I would have damaged a synchro this way.

I thought there was one synchro for both 1st and 2nd gears? Or am I completely off-base. If there's only one synchro for both, it doesn't seem like that could be the problem because 2nd is still perfect.
 

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inoplanetyanin said:
A synchro's purpose is to allow the collar and the gear to make frictional contact before the dog teeth make contact. This lets the collar and the gear synchronize their speeds before the teeth need to engage, like this:

PLease notice, it says, ur simple old how stuff works server says:

THIS LETS the colla and gear S Y N C H R O N I Z E their speeds.
Please open ur eyes and read my upper message again.
Why the hell else to synchronize the speed if not to engage it with the engine?????????????


Idiots...
Easy there comerade. Don't pop an artery... and before you go calling me/us idiots, allow me to clarify a few things for you.

In your first response you said:

"Synchronizers synchronize the speed of the clutch with the speed of the flywheel. "

This is simply 100% WRONG - and that's why I corrected you! As I said, synchronizers have NOTHING to do with the clutch or flywheel. At first I thought maybe it was a poor choice of words on your part - but no, the rest of your explanation implies that is exactly what you meant to say - and again - it was totally incorrect.

Now, you did a pretty good job of paraphrasing the "HowStuffWorks" site in your next response (quoted above) and on your next one, but I still wonder if you understand what you read and wrote. The synchronization taking place is internal to the transmission - completely independent of the engine/flywheel/clutch. This other page on the "HowStuffWorks" site explains it much better than I have time to:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission2.htm

...but basically the synchronizers get the collar up/down to the speed of the gear about to be engaged so that the dog teeth just pop right in - instead of grinding. Yes, they SYNCHRONIZE the speeds, but again - not to the speed of the engine (or clutch or flywheel) but the speed of the collar to that of the desired gear. Obviously these gears spin at a PROPORTIONAL speed to the engine (when the clutch is engaged), but they spin at DIFFERENT speeds than the engine - and different from each other. The collar speed is determined by the speed of the output shaft to the differential. The clutch/flywheel speed are irrelevant to the synchros.

Also, in one of your other posts you state:

If you shift quickly and turning the engine at high revolutions, as well as taking off suddenly - that's what destroyes the synchronizers.

This is at least partially correct. Shifting quickly (especially when "speed shifting") will wear syncros, but engine RPM doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. For example, get up to speed in 4th or 5th gear - say 50 MPH, disengage the clutch (push the pedal in) and let the engine return to idle. Heck, switch the engine OFF if you want (just don't turn the key to the "lock" position or you wont be able to steer). Now, with the clutch still disengaged, try to put your transmission in 1st gear. Just push on it moderately, don't force it. Hear that whining? That's your 1st gear synchro working REAL hard - and the engine is idling - or OFF. Massive synchro wear - little or NO engine speed. I don't advise doing this very much as it will eventually destroy that synchro.

Also taking off suddenly does not wear the synchros AT ALL. When you are sitting still with the engine idling and the clutch disengaged, about start from a complete stop, you are already in 1st gear - the dog teeth on the collar are already fully engaged with 1st gear. The synchros are out of the picture at this point - doing nothing. The only thing you'll wear by "taking off suddenly" is your clutch and front tires.

Mechanical Engineering. I have nothing but respect and appreciation for mechanical engineers. I have studied calculus and physics - so I can appreciate the difficulty of their work. I had two roomates in college who were M.E.'s - so I know how tough it can be. My original comment was not meant to slight mechanical engineers at all. It was meant to point out that I was surprised that YOU, as a mechanical engineering student, didn't know any more about how a manual transmission works than you appear to.

You said: I wonder to know what u study.. if anything...
it's easy to scream over the internet being ignorant lazy, weak minded wossy boy, who wears his pants too high.


Well, since you asked... I am a computer systems analyst - with 15 years of experience. I am not screaming, (or even mildly pissed) or lazy (talk about lazy, try typing out "you" instead of resorting to "u") or weak-minded. I am not even a "wossy boy" :D whatever that is, nor are my pants too high. I am; however, laughing at you. You really should chill out!

It seems I have offended you - but if you can't admit that you were wrong, that's your problem. I can't stand to see someone post something incorrect as FACT (rather than saying "I think...", or "in my opinion..." or "I may be wrong, but...", etc.). Other less experianced people might read your post and believe it as fact. I certainly don't know it all - but I also don't post about things that I don't know about - and I will - as in this case - step in and correct incorrect statements whenever I can. I might have simply corrected you, but you were pointing your finger, so to speak, at Shawn saying HE didn't know what synchros did - and then you proceeded to post a totally incorrect statement yourself. That is why my reply was not very polite. Whaah. Get over it.

So anyway, I hope you understand how synchros REALLY work now. Accept that you were wrong, chalk it up to experience, learn from it, and move on.

Peace,
 
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