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Discussion Starter #1
What is Kerry's proposal for a national health care plan? Why do we need a new national health care plan? We have Medcaid and Medicare and a charity hospital system. We have free medial clinics that even pass out free condoms and bitrh control pills. We have hospitals strictly for Veterans and private non-profit charitable hospitals. So why do we need a "new" health plan. Who in America can not get health care now?
 
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Fuck national heaqlthcare. The only way to pay for it si to cut heavily in to the military and governmental services and building projects or raise taxes to 50% of your income.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Uhhhh...


hello Kerry supporters...

Was the question too complicated? :p

Kerry websiten says...

"John Kerry and John Edwards will cut family premiums by up to $1,000. That's $1,000 in real savings people can use to buy groceries, pay the bills, and save for their children's future. And that will mean more jobs and more competitive American businesses."

They say that the average premiums have increased by over $2600.00/year in the last two years. How will the difference be made up? Will the government pay it by raising taxes? Will they demand lower medical prices forcing the medical profession to take pay cuts. No, by reducing the paper waste which they say is 25% of our medical costs. And how will they do this? By harnessing America's ingenuity. What a brilliant plan. Heck it is so good, they should do the same for the price of groceries and car insurance and homes.

Why have we not harnessed America's ingenuilty years ago?
 
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Last time I checked less than 10% of the people in this country did not have health coverage from their employeer or that they pay themselves. As soon as a national coverage becomes available many many employeers will drop health coverage in its entirety and the state will have to pay for it. To do that they will have to raise taxes. Only an idiot can not see that will happen.

And many of the people that will now be getting health coverage are illegals. Fuck paying more in taxes for them.
 

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Think about it this way.

If you weren't covered by your employer you could expect to pay over $1000 a month for decent health care.

On top of that health care from employees has seen double digit price increases every year for at least the last 4 years. And the benefits have decreased.

At some point private health care becomes more expensive than public health care. Imagine if the prices continue to increase, at some point small businesses and lower level employees will drop off the health care coverage because it will be so expensive for employers (they probably pay hundreds a month per employee now + more for spouse + more for kids) so if you made $40K a year at some point the cost of the coverage versus the annual salary become rediculous (salary 40K insurance $10K ?).

On top of that there are other problems with private health care. You insurance can deny coverage to you. You die. Your family can't sue. The only money they could get would be the amount it would have cost to perform the denied procedure. Therefore insurance companies have motivation to deny coverage because they can only win they can't lose. You can't really get good drugs anymore since the selection is extremely limited. Most diagnostic procedures are restricted. You might have to wait months and months for important stuff. Its just getting generally rediculous.
 
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greensoup2 said:
Think about it this way.

If you weren't covered by your employer you could expect to pay over $1000 a month for decent health care.

I have a PPO that I pay for myself. It is a good plan and my major medical deductible is $2000. I pay $87 a month. There are cheaper plans with higher deductibles and there are more expensive plans with lower deductibles. The tops I would have paid is for a $500 deductible and that was $300 a month. If you are healthy when you sign up it is pretty cheap.
 

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Considering Canada and most of Europe have national health care/government paid, why isn't their tax rate 50%? I know it's high, but then again, the US has some of the lowest taxes of all the developed countries.
 

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Al Bundy's Friend Griff said:
I have a PPO that I pay for myself. It is a good plan and my major medical deductible is $2000. I pay $87 a month. There are cheaper plans with higher deductibles and there are more expensive plans with lower deductibles. The tops I would have paid is for a $500 deductible and that was $300 a month. If you are healthy when you sign up it is pretty cheap.
But lets say Jane Doe has works for a small company and she's 50 years old, and the company drops the group insurance because it's too expensive. Now she goes out and tries to purchase it on her own, it's $600 - $700 a month, just for herself. Or lets say, you take John Doe who is 25 in excellent health but who's father passed at age 43 with congestive heart failure. He's rated high because of the age a parent died (non accident related). He applies for coverage come to find out it $900 a month.
Sounds pretty shitty to me.
 
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Canada and Europes tax rates average in the mid 40%. 50% might be high but it is not out of the question considering that if it is enacted then 60 million people will be on it after employers cut it out at their work.
 
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JLewisinSyr said:
But lets say Jane Doe has works for a small company and she's 50 years old, and the company drops the group insurance because it's too expensive. Now she goes out and tries to purchase it on her own, it's $600 - $700 a month, just for herself. Or lets say, you take John Doe who is 25 in excellent health but who's father passed at age 43 with congestive heart failure. He's rated high because of the age a parent died (non accident related). He applies for coverage come to find out it $900 a month.
Sounds pretty shitty to me.
Then there are 2 options for John and Jane Doe a) Pay it themselves or b) get different jobs that have insurance coverage. Why should my taxes go up to pay for someone that is not willing to do what ever they can to get it on their own. Medical coverage is not a right. If I do not want to pay for it then I would not have it but I would never expect anyone to pay for it for me.
 

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Al Bundy's Friend Griff said:
Then there are 2 options for John and Jane Doe a) Pay it themselves or b) get different jobs that have insurance coverage. Why should my taxes go up to pay for someone that is not willing to do what ever they can to get it on their own. Medical coverage is not a right. If I do not want to pay for it then I would not have it but I would never expect anyone to pay for it for me.
**** you, medical care and coverage is every living person's right! Why should Jane Doe who is 50 years old, making $30,000 a year suffer because she cannot afford insurance on her own, quit her job with long history and lose other benefits. And I was referencing myself who is 25 has a family history of heart problems and if I were to buy insurance on my own would be around $900 a month. Now granted I make good money and could afford it, but why should I have to suffer my lifestyle if my employer (who I have a good standing with and make decent money) decides to no longer offer a benefit package.
 
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JLewisinSyr said:
**** you, medical care and coverage is every living person's right! Why should Jane Doe who is 50 years old, making $30,000 a year suffer because she cannot afford insurance on her own, quit her job with long history and lose other benefits. And I was referencing myself who is 25 has a family history of heart problems and if I were to buy insurance on my own would be around $900 a month. Now granted I make good money and could afford it, but why should I have to suffer my lifestyle if my employer (who I have a good standing with and make decent money) decides to no longer offer a benefit package.
**** you. Medical coverage is not a right it is an option and a privilage. Why should I have to save longer for a new car or a house because taxes went up and I have less in pocket money to pay for health care for Jane Doe because she will not get a different job?

Again sorry but your medical problems are not mine so why should I have to pay for it? I do not mind paying for police, or firemen or for roads because we all use it and therefore should pay for it but why should those that do not need medical coverage from the state pay for you?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
**** you, medical care and coverage is every living person's right! Why should Jane Doe who is 50 years old, making $30,000 a year suffer because she cannot afford insurance on her own, quit her job with long history and lose other benefits. And I was referencing myself who is 25 has a family history of heart problems and if I were to buy insurance on my own would be around $900 a month. Now granted I make good money and could afford it, but why should I have to suffer my lifestyle if my employer (who I have a good standing with and make decent money) decides to no longer offer a benefit package.
So, you expect me who is a middle class hard working man to pay for her or your problems? I work hard and a lot of my check goes to health insurance for my family and you want more of my money to pay for your family or some old lady in Texas? She and you can still get decent medical treatment at a charity government run facility with the taxes we already have to pay. And as far as Canada's health care plan, last I heard, a person has to wait months and years for medical procedures. Do a google search and see how good it is.

Here is a link for you.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15524

Hell, home prices have skyrocketed in our area. Think you could send me a couple hundred a month to help me pay my motgage? No, I did not think you would agree to that.
 

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So for someone to live without health care is alright, but sure lets spend billions of dollars on airline bail out payments, or tax credits for owning a alternative fuel vehicle? Let me think.
Home ownership is not a right, having a place to live is. Lets go back to kindergarten when we learned about needs and wants. Needs:
Health
Food
Clothing
Place to Live
Wants:
Own home
Car
TV/Computer
Get the point?
 
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Yes it is ok for someone to live with out health care if there are other options available and they choose not to do them.

Tell you what though you send me the difference between what my taxes were before and what they are after for the rest of your life and I will say fine then. But if you do nat want to pay up then shut up because I definately do not care or want to pay for another human being when options are already available.
 

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JLewisinSyr said:
**** you, medical care and coverage is every living person's right! Why should Jane Doe who is 50 years old, making $30,000 a year suffer because she cannot afford insurance on her own, quit her job with long history and lose other benefits. And I was referencing myself who is 25 has a family history of heart problems and if I were to buy insurance on my own would be around $900 a month. Now granted I make good money and could afford it, but why should I have to suffer my lifestyle if my employer (who I have a good standing with and make decent money) decides to no longer offer a benefit package.
Medical care and coverage is not every person's right. Looks like Jane Doe should have worked a little harder at getting better medical insurance. I mean this in the best way JLewis, but take a look at yourself. Sounds like you worked hard to get to where your at, make good money, and get good benefits. So lets say, someone with no motivation to better themselves in anyway, works minimum wage jobs to make their parents happy so he can keep living with them, starts developing medical problems. Are you telling me, that we should DIVERT money that goes to businesses that employee people, and help Mr. Lazyass? No way. I do not work 40 hrs a week, and keep my own side business going, so that I can work harder to help someone that is lazy POS. I, for one, do not work to buy liabilities, I work for current needs and retirement.
 

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JLewisinSyr said:
But lets say Jane Doe has works for a small company and she's 50 years old, and the company drops the group insurance because it's too expensive. Now she goes out and tries to purchase it on her own, it's $600 - $700 a month, just for herself.
You ever hear of COBRA?
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Love the way they change the subject on you. I love the way they say it is a right to have medical coverage. Where in the Constitution does it state that we should have medical coverage?

or tax credits for owning a alternative fuel vehicle?


From the John Kerry webite...

create tax incentives that help automakers produce more fuel efficient cars, and reward the consumers who buy them.
Guess you are still going to vote for him, right?


From your quote...

Home ownership is not a right, having a place to live is
Having medical coverage is not a right, having a place to get treatment is. And every American whether they are black or white or rich or poor has a place to get medical treatment right now. Maybe not the best treatment, but decent treatment better than most places in the world. I PAY for my access to better treatment, just like I PAY for my nicer home and I do not expect you to help me pay for either. But, my friend, my offer is still open. You are more than welcome to send me a couple hundred a month for my motgage or my insurance payments. Whichever you feel more comfortable doing.
 
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