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The Dude
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8,837 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
how much timing do you run @ what boost, and do you ever detonate? I normally run between 18 and 20.

today, on my way to cali, I decided to top her out. I never have heard ping like I did @ 10psi in fifth gear. it started pinging, so I got off the throttle and the car was running so poorly that I thought there was serious damage. I limped the car to a truck stop and borrowed a spark plug socket and a ratchet. when I pulled the plugs they all looked normal except for the #4 plug. the ground on it was touching the plug.........no gap what so ever. I called asleepaltima and he said this was a sign of detonation..........makes sense. when I finally got the car back home I checked timing and was at 23........wtf. how could my timing change all by its self?

I just installed new plugs, gapped at .030 and backed the timing down to 18. the car runs perfect.

please help me brain storm here. whats going on?

should ping always be audible?

thanks in advance
 

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The Dude
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8,837 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
I just talked to Jason (asleepaltima) and he made a few valid points about my timing changing......

when I installed my jwt cams, I neglected to re check my timing. also, I have a motor w/ 23000 miles on it, and were thinking my timing chain may still be stretching a bit.............
 

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Turbo Motorhead
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3,466 Posts
if you're running with an FMax manifold, then standing in front of your car from left to right, number 1 plug is the leanest or coldest. and 3 & 4 being the richest or hotter one.

correct me if i'm wrong here but camshafts dictate lift and duration of valve operation, not ignition functions, so your igniton timing should not have advanced or retarded due to the JWT camshaft.

make sure, as you probably already have, that your distributor is functioning properly, and then think about the chain stretching. i cant see the chain stretch significantly with only 23 thousand miles on the motor.

just another opinion Jason :) btw, waz up dude?
 

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Registered
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1,463 Posts
I doubt the timing chain is stretching, I did the timing chain swap and removal of the two guards etc. and measured the difference between the two chains, there was none. This was at 80000+ miles.

Are you locking the ecu into timing mode before altering the timing at the distributor? Otherwise the ecu is going to be dynamically changing the timing, while you are altering the timing.

I think stock timing is 20+-2 degrees, some people have had success in advancing the timing a little since JWT seems to be very conservative in their timing. However, this is also dependant on ambient conditions. Keep this in mind since you are in Arizona, timing might not be as forgivable for you to advance as to someone in a cooler environment.

UltimaSE
 

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The Dude
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8,837 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
^ makes sense. I have not been reseting the ecu when i set timing. so last night it was set and when I got into cali today and had to climb a hill I went into boost and it happened again....... this time #1 and #4. I rechecked timing and right back at 20+.

so, this time when I set the timing I will reset the ecu and hopefully it doesnt change.

please keep the ideas coming. thanks a lot guys
 

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1,463 Posts
ULTIMATUC said:
^ makes sense. I have not been reseting the ecu when i set timing. so last night it was set and when I got into cali today and had to climb a hill I went into boost and it happened again....... this time #1 and #4. I rechecked timing and right back at 20+.

so, this time when I set the timing I will reset the ecu and hopefully it doesnt change.

please keep the ideas coming. thanks a lot guys
I didn't mean reset the ecu, there's a specific timing lock mode that you want to place the ecu in, where it will lock the base timing. This way you know you are changing the base timing and the ecu isn't moving the timing around while you are changing the timing via the distributor.

This should be in the fsm under idle adjustment.

Warm up the car to operating temperature.
Stop the engine and disconnect the tps.
Restart the engine.
Rev the engine over 3000 rpm 3 times.

Now check the timing, the ecu should be in timing lock. If done correctly this is what your ecu has as it's base timing. I usually adjust the timing here, avoiding when the fan turns on.

If you've been adjusting the timing without the ecu locking it you might be changing the base timing too far without knowing it. The ecu doesn't know what the timing is set to, it can only assume it's set correctly at 20.

UltimaSE
 

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The Dude
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8,837 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
thanks ultima. that is what I have been doing. I'm going to reset tomorrow and see what happens.
 

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Banned
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1,143 Posts
UltimaSE said:
I didn't mean reset the ecu, there's a specific timing lock mode that you want to place the ecu in, where it will lock the base timing. This way you know you are changing the base timing and the ecu isn't moving the timing around while you are changing the timing via the distributor.

This should be in the fsm under idle adjustment.

Warm up the car to operating temperature.
Stop the engine and disconnect the tps.
Restart the engine.
Rev the engine over 3000 rpm 3 times.

Now check the timing, the ecu should be in timing lock. If done correctly this is what your ecu has as it's base timing. I usually adjust the timing here, avoiding when the fan turns on.

If you've been adjusting the timing without the ecu locking it you might be changing the base timing too far without knowing it. The ecu doesn't know what the timing is set to, it can only assume it's set correctly at 20.

UltimaSE
I never realized that is what the computer is doing. thanks for the info
 

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Registered
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1,463 Posts
There's Greg at Quality Nissan in Temecula, or Peter at Mossy Nissan Poway. Both good guys.

You might want to consider ngk platinums, they last longer than the coppers and jwt recommends them for turbo applications. It's either for a na 300zx or a turbo, that I'm not sure.

UltimaSE
 

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Am I still a NOOB?
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2,082 Posts
Hey guys. Haven't been around in a while. I saw this topic and decided to ask ultimatuc how everything went afterwards. THis is some interesting info and would help a lot for what I'm doing to my engine right now.
 

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Erect Member
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18,126 Posts
the car is still in cali... hes already back in az and hes going to pick the car up and have it trailered next weekend, i believe...
 

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Rockin the Kasbah
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4,106 Posts
On that topic of damage...there will be a new set of main and rod bearings in my ride wed night :\
 

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The Dude
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8,837 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
^ you might want to have your crank journals resurfaced and get the right undersized bearings.
 
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