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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I took a new 21 Sentra out for a drive and am going through the Owner's Manual. Holy Crap, There's allot of tech in these cars! On the test drive it seemed like every 3 seconds or so there's something was popping up somewhere and I started to get pissed off. It was like driving with a small kid in the car that was always trying to get your attention or something. I mean really, Piss off, I'm driving!

There, Rant over....

So I'm going through the manual and it looks like I can turn most of it off so it might be a non issue but really, do people actually drive with all these things turned on all the time? Do people really not know what the speed limit is and need to have it pop up to remind them? Can people really not look out the window to see if they can take the next lane? Do people really not know that they should stay between the lines of the road? I would consider things like this to be a given and is a really basic part of driving. Are we going to see a bunch of people going down the road staring at the dash board instead of the road? Kinda reminds me of old people driving when all you see is a car going down the road with two hands and a hat on the steering wheel.

Having said that the backup cam and adaptive cruise is nice but this whole "driver assist" experience doesn't do it for me.

Maybe I'm a cave man. Maybe I'm thick in the head. I don't know.
What do you think?
 

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Perhaps you're making 'too' much out of this. Sorry, the misuse of this word is one of my pet peeves.

My 2014 Altima 2.5S has none of these bells and whistles and I would find these add-ons annoying and distracting. But if Nissan allows you to turn off most, if not all of these features, I would deem this acceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
While it's true that most of it can be turned off I'm wondering about how many people don't and actually rely on these features in their everyday driving. I actually spoke to one person who ran into the car beside him because the driver assist was blank when he took the next lane. No one was hurt but even he had to laugh and admit all he had to do was look out the window instead of the dash.
 

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I rely on old school driver assist technology - proper adjustment of the side view mirrors. I don't need to look out the window every time I want to change lanes. Yes, I will turn my head to look when I'm uncertain if someone is beside me and that's typically in heavy traffic on the Interstate.
 

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I agree with post #1, we are in a world where the cars just like Momma have to dress little children in the morning before they can function. I was on another site that a person was trying to give a new car back to dealer over an outside temperature sensor was in error by 2 degrees! And the rant there was so incompetent you realize you would dread being next to that person on the highway.

People who need lane minders are not competent enough to be driving cars. I for one am lucky enough I will be old enough to quit driving when the self driving cars hit the roads in volume. Can't wait for all the cars that convert to airplanes to start falling out of the sky next.

I loathe the dearth of massive electronics on cars now, because they are utterly unreliable. I fix all my own cars and I build computers and networks, so not afraid of them except when my life is on the line, I will not go that far. I drove motorcycles until I was 26 years old and the fighter pilot mentality to not ever give up operator control is still burned into me at 68 now.
 

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It's not customers who've been demanding these features. It's mainly NHTSA and insurance companies. They start out as options and become standard equipment eventually.
Some would say that's progress.
 

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They don't have to demand it to get it dumped in their lap. They have to stand up and do something about it. If not the government will wrap you up in a big ball of cotton and keep you tied up inside so you won't stub your toe to die of blood poisoning. And I say that coming from a leftist point of view. The right will push against it but not hard enough to stop it, then do what they do, add more and more layers of you need this and that until you are then supporting capitalism to the point of being dangerously close to not making ends meet. Look at the average price of a car now, and turn that into an imaginary IRA that will never happen because somebody bought a car.
 

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So I took a new 21 Sentra out for a drive and am going through the Owner's Manual. Holy Crap, There's allot of tech in these cars! On the test drive it seemed like every 3 seconds or so there's something was popping up somewhere and I started to get pissed off. It was like driving with a small kid in the car that was always trying to get your attention or something. I mean really, Piss off, I'm driving!

There, Rant over....

So I'm going through the manual and it looks like I can turn most of it off so it might be a non issue but really, do people actually drive with all these things turned on all the time? Do people really not know what the speed limit is and need to have it pop up to remind them? Can people really not look out the window to see if they can take the next lane? Do people really not know that they should stay between the lines of the road? I would consider things like this to be a given and is a really basic part of driving. Are we going to see a bunch of people going down the road staring at the dash board instead of the road? Kinda reminds me of old people driving when all you see is a car going down the road with two hands and a hat on the steering wheel.

Having said that the backup cam and adaptive cruise is nice but this whole "driver assist" experience doesn't do it for me.

Maybe I'm a cave man. Maybe I'm thick in the head. I don't know.
What do you think?
I think, in a few years, we'll be worrying less about the brain dead, relying too much on their warnings, staring at the dashboard and we'll need to be worrying more about driverless cars, where if an accident does occur, the fault will lie directly on the "driver", because the "driver" was ultimately "in control" of the car. The blame will NEVER be on the technology, even though the "driver" will clearly be distracted, or better yet, sleeping behind the wheel. It's inevitable, unless they have some safety in place, that will, let's say, shock the driver if it senses that their eyes aren't on the road.
 

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Your comments apply only to the lower autonomous levels
When the tech reaches level 5, AI will be behind the 'wheel', the humans will be mere passengers.
 

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Your comments apply only to the lower autonomous levels
When the tech reaches level 5, AI will be behind the 'wheel', the humans will be mere passengers.
You think so? In personal vehicles? You don't think "level 5" will be delegated to the top 5, or 10%ers? Or just to public transportation? You know that no company supplying this technology will be willing to take responsibility for the financial liabilities, of people getting killed by their products. If there is a vehicle owner in that car, I believe they will be ultimately held responsible, for the foreseeable future. Maybe some day though. But who knows. One good CME burst and we get knocked back into the stone age anyway.
 

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The ultimate aim will be to have NO human on board the bigger trucks at all and they have to mix with the personal ones. At some point the lawsuits will stack up to be so big the megabuck corps WILL back off the idea.

Idea is similar to the space thing going on now, we have a long string of success with private space ventures now, enough to make you vainly wonder why NASA had so much trouble. But send somebody to Mars and we will NOT be seeing them again. And, at some point here we are going to get a space shuttle type disaster to make us slow down and take stock, the more mundane things get the more loose ends stay loose to make chaosian events happen. Both previous shuttle events happened because of that reason, the problems were known about but nothing was done to alleviate them and what was bound to happen at some point then happened.

I'm waiting for the day autonomous drones deliver all packages by air and it gets so common some drug runner drops a 10 million $ box of cocaine on my porch. Or an Amazon robot semi comes down the street to stop in front of house to robotically unload 73 (not 72 or 74) new 130 inch quark enhanced radon gas laser plasma LED TVs in my yard. All with AMC theatre licensed Godzilla sound (AMC having gone into receivership due to the covid omega strain pandemic of 2031) and the standalone power generator units that go with each.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I totally think we'll see Level 5 in the majority or cars 10 years after it comes out.

We don't have level 5 out yet and already we're seeing incidences of people running on autopilot. Was a case a while back where cops had a hard time pulling over a car that was going 1.5x the highway speed limit in the middle of the night. Turns out the "driver" had folded the seat all the way back and went to sleep with the car in autopilot. Was another case in Florida (?) where the car wrecked and several occupants died. In that case there wasn't even anyone IN the driver's seat.

Thing that has me shaking my head is this will totally not help the carbon foot print/climate change argument. Self driving cars will put on WAY more miles per unit that they do now. Think about it... If I had a self driving car I wouldn't need to pay for parking. Just let the car drive around the building till I'm ready and then get in. Have the car drop me off at work and then drive back home to sit in the driveway. Have it pick me up when I'm off shift. Then you get into things like letting the car drive the kids to their events while you do other things, etc... You've got your own private Uber!

I see the average car easily putting on 3x the mileage than they do now.

I think we're a long way from getting self driving cars not because of the technology but rather because of liability. There's allot to sort out on the legal end.
 

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You think so? In personal vehicles? You don't think "level 5" will be delegated to the top 5, or 10%ers? Or just to public transportation? You know that no company supplying this technology will be willing to take responsibility for the financial liabilities, of people getting killed by their products. If there is a vehicle owner in that car, I believe they will be ultimately held responsible, for the foreseeable future. Maybe some day though. But who knows. One good CME burst and we get knocked back into the stone age anyway.
A CME burst takes at least 15 hours to reach Earth. Advanced electronic systems are capable of making decisions in nanoseconds. CME burst definitely heading towards us? Prepare for it as if it were a category 7 hurricane. Easy-peasy.

Autonomous vehicles will be MUCH safer than human drivers . There are too many reckless and impaired drivers on our streets and highways these days.
Thousands are needlessly killed each years - the perps and the innocents. Level 5 autonomy can't come soon enough. Hopefully humans will be prohibited from driving then too.
 

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It won't ever work, when a car breaks the driver knows enough to get it out of the way. Doing that can often work beyond any AI thinking ability. The AI would have to have another computer simply to predict all the things that can go wrong before they do so to constantly have an evasion preplanned. And with devices like CVT which disable a car sometimes instantly with zero warning to not have another gear like most standard type ATX do (I've come more than 60 miles before with no water in car and twice with absolute broken transmissions because I could use another gear) the ability of AI to react may be non-existent due to overwhelming other conditions. With the move to total electric by 2030s look at how many incompetents will not charge car properly to have batteries run down to disable cars to say 1/3 speed to get home and the traffic jams it will cause. Tesla alone has at least 4 accidents in the last year that have no explanations so far, they can't seem to figure out what made the computers think conditions were fine when they were not.

As to mileage.............best pay attention to the new big press to drop gasoline tax entirely as 'unfair' and unworkable to go across the board with a mileage tax instead to catch electric cars in it too. It will require all cars to likely have to report mileage by wi-fi and government looking hard at it now being pushed by both parties to do it.

And just wait till hackers learn how to wi-fi into a computer system to register the hack computer as another friendly module to take over a robot to do with it what they will. It was done with a cruise ship several years back and it got through layers of encryption to do it. You guys must not have seen the fast and furious movie where they did it with hundreds of cars exactly the same way denial of service attacks are done using thousands of unsuspecting computers. Impossible? Not with Chinese quantum speed encryption cracking coming. That stuff can break into any bank multilevel of encryption you can think of.

A total driving public riding in autonomous cars would be a terrorist's wet dream.

Yet most computer devices removed any HDD activity lights because people don't like them and they save 30 cents on each unit. I put those indicators on everything I build, they commonly will show you in seconds when somebody is likely hacking your stuff.
 

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AI will leap past human intelligence if we don't go extinct or kill ourselves wholesale beforehand. All the issues you've cited will be addressed, by AI, as it will outsmart even our brightest minds.
So yes, fully autonomous vehicles are coming and it will work. However, you or I might not be around to see it happen since we're both in our twilight trimesters of our biological realities.
You're like Lord Kelvin who said: 'I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible' - only eight years before Kitty Hawk..
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Normally I would agree that AI would be no match the general reasoning of a human mind especially when presented with problems never seen before but since the smartphone came out people have become REALLY stupid. Knowledge retention is extremely low and as for critical thinking, "Hey Siri, what do I think about this..."
 

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I am nothing at all like Lord Kelvin, I am smart enough to know birds are heavier than air.

I had a rebuff typed up as to why we will never see that level of perfection but it was way too controversial and would likely offend many. Suffice to say it was a treatise on the danger of optimism.
 

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It wasn't my intention to 'ruffle your feathers' with my Lord Kelvin comment. Just to show that saying something won't happen is embarrassing when it does.
Would you be willing to tone down your rebuttal so that it's not overly controversial and offensive?
 

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I had a rebuff typed up as to why we will never see that level of perfection but it was way too controversial and would likely offend many. Suffice to say it was a treatise on the danger of optimism.

You wrote this in post #17. So; no, you really didn't explain why your 'rebuff' would've likely offended many. All you did in post #14 is point out the challenges to achieving full autonomy. Looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree - that is until fully autonomous vehicles become available which will happen, it's just a matter of when.
 
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