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5spding soon...
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1,377 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is a topic I seem to not know enough about and I hope that I'm not just talking out of my noob ass about all this.

Everytime I research boosting our Alti's KAs I seem to run into a $4k+ scenario plus standalone fuel management. Thats $4k for many of the following: the turbo, manifold, injectors, fuel pump, BOV, wastegate, exhaust, MAF, intercooler, some piping, timer, etc.

There are local 240s with low boost setups that I've seen recently that run like stock only with 70+hp. Why wouldn't such a setup work on our cars?

For instance:

370cc SR20det injectors
Adjustable FPR set at 40psi
Upgraded Fuel Pump and lines
Tial 35mm wastegate with 6 or an 8psi spring
T3/T4OE 50 trim .63 AR Stage 3 wheel
Greddy/1st Gen DSM BOV
Spearco FMIC
2.5" Intercooler piping
JGS manifold
Oil Drain connections and lines
Custom 3" turbo back exhuast
8" long open dumptube on wastegate
MSD ignition
NGK plugs
Apexi Turbo Timer and SAFCII

If all of this was tuned to 6 or 8psi why wouldn't it run smoothly without standalone? I could get all of those parts and the labor done for $2500-$3000 with unlimited tuning and dynoing.

Thats almost the exact setup on a local 240 thats running smooth without standalone:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/608802/1



Heres another running at 6-10psi without standalone on stock internals:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/294092/1



Heres another running at 6-14psi without standalone on stock internals:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/424824/2


I don't know how off the mark I really am with all of this since I don't know the differences between 240's KAs and our Altima's but seeing how easy their setups are to manage I would think it would be just as much work on our own but I don't really know. What am I missing?

I know that for $3k, putting down 220 or so at the wheels would completely be worth it. I just want to make sure there isn't some catch I'm missing thats leading everyone to expensive fuel management systems and a hell of lot more money than these 240 setups cost.
 

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Senior Member
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1,484 Posts
Well the thing to look at is the fact that there are direct bolt on kits for the 240 for around 3K and not for the Altima. However I'm piecing mine together, and am spending about 3K on all of my setup. So it can be done if you do everything separetly.
 

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Registered
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7,268 Posts
everything about my set up is basically stock.
stock MAF
stock ECU
stock fuel pump
no MSD, no fuel pressure regulator

i say it works fine, my car runs excellent.
 

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phi phi Kappa Alpha
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3,033 Posts
Why not just spend the extra 600 on the JWT programming (unless you are second gen). I run 8psi daily (10.5 when i am having fun). IF you can piece it together for 3k then more power to you, just make sure you have money lying around for when problems occur. Most of us here run 7-10psi. Your list is pretty good, I would replace the stock pump with a Walbro stock replacement, you won't need a FPR, or to upgrade the lines either. You will need a manifold, and you don't need the MSD, but it isn't a bad thing to have.
 

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5spding soon...
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1,377 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
To feed the bigger injectors you don't need to add an adj. fpr or replace the fuel pump? I'd upgrade the fuel pump for sure anyway but is that all that needs to be done as far as fuel delivery?
I thought that an Apexi SAFCII would only be able to tune the incoming and outgoing signals and that the stock fuel system wouldn't be able to provide enough pressure/gas to the injectors capability hence the common situation of running too lean at higher rpms or near idle.

I know that there are fuel rails available for the 240s, has anyone looked into those at all?
The 240s kits (manifolds) shouldn't have any problem fitting our KA blocks correct?
 

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RLR is here
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6,078 Posts
remembering back to the old F-Max kits, you didn't need any fuel upgrades for their stage 1 kit other than ECU and injectors. Basically it went like this

Turbo Manifold
Downpipe
Intercooler
Intercooler and Intake Piping
Air Filter
Turbo
Wastegate
Blow-off Valve
370cc Injectors
ECU

that's it. you could run up to 10psi safely on stock internals and stock fuel system, no need for a pump/fpr/fuel rail upgrade. They still put down over 250whp. I dont even think you really needed to run a better ignition for that kind of power. Higher than that and the rest of the fuel system would need upgrading, but so would the engine.
 

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5spding soon...
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1,377 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Damn. I thought there was some type of catch or something that I was seriously missing. I know the stock internals can handle up to 10psi I just wasn't sure if the stock fuel system was gonna be able to live up to that much as well. Knowing all that I can see the possibility of another 2nd gen turbo coming up really soon...I can get all of these parts for $2k exactly:

370cc SR20det injectors
Tial 35mm wastegate with 6 or an 8psi spring
T3/T4
Greddy/1st Gen DSM BOV
Apexi Intercooler
2.5" Intercooler piping
Custom Turbo manifold
Oil Drain connections and lines
Custom 3" turbo back exhuast
8" long open dumptube on wastegate
NGK plugs
Apexi Turbo Timer and SAFCII

Extra $500:
MSD ignition
Adjustable FPR set at 40psi
Upgraded Fuel Pump and lines

All of the installation and dynotuning my friend's shop will do for free.

I would expect that running at 6psi street and 8-10psi track would yield results I'd be more than happy with for a daily driver. I could see that netting around 250whp, probably in the 4k rpm range easily.

Just to make sure, there isn't anything I'm missing right?
 

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Rockin the Kasbah
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4,106 Posts
If you wanta bullet proof fuel system copy mine:

Walbro 255 Intank
MSD 50 lbs
Jim Wolf Rail
Nismo FPR

The nly thing I don't have are upgraded lines...but i think Fred does! ;]
 

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Senior Member
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1,484 Posts
Get a cartech, or vortech FMU instead of the adjustable fpr, trust me it will be much safer for your engine with this, because it will adjust for the fuel pressure off of the boost pressure, and vaccum lines. It will be much safer. Also calculate in your guages, vaccum line, silicone hose. Your probably better running a 38mm wastegate for daily driving, stop and go situations, your flanges and gaskets, probably a battery relocation wouldn't be a bad idea to make the install easier.
 

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Import Tech.
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4,670 Posts
I have been working on a small T28 setup for a while , something under $500 ( adaptor to stock 96 up exhaust manifold, T28 or ? , stock 7lb internal wastegate, underhood intercooler, ( already have ) Vortech FMU ( already have ) , basic BOV ( already have ) ... plum it all up and i dont see why a low boost 200 HP area setup wouldnt work , just for that extra bit ....
 

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Rockin the Kasbah
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4,106 Posts
skylineawd: I'm a little confused on why you'd use the FMU instead of the adjustable FPR??? mines a 1:1 and it works great...and used a vacuum source to determine when i'm in boost...
 

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Senior Member
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1,484 Posts
Well your adjustable FMU sets a base fuel pressure, and that's it.

The vortech has certain disk, that determine the peak fuel pressure.

The cartech uses the vaccum to determine the range. It has 2 adjustments on it. You first set a base fuel pressure, so lets say 40 PSI. The you set the 2nd adjustment lets say for 55 PSI. Now once you get on boost it's not going to jump up to 55 PSI all at once, but it will determine what PSI of fuel is best for that RPM. This in turn would limit the peak PSI of fuel to be 55 if that is what you set it for, or whatever range you want to set it at. Also the cartech is like 185-200 bucks off E-bay, and the Nismo FPR is already right at 100, (which I do have), but I will also be going with the Cartech FMU. However the cool part is the cartech, or vortech FMU works with your factor FPR.
 

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Stringz of Death
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2,481 Posts
SHAWN said:
I have been working on a small T28 setup for a while , something under $500 ( adaptor to stock 96 up exhaust manifold, T28 or ? , stock 7lb internal wastegate, underhood intercooler, ( already have ) Vortech FMU ( already have ) , basic BOV ( already have ) ... plum it all up and i dont see why a low boost 200 HP area setup wouldnt work , just for that extra bit ....
I WANT I WANT! except that it would have to work with a Hotshot header considering i got rid of the stock manifold :) LOL

i think about 200 or so HP would be perfect, maybe 210 or 220...;) LOL

interesting thread though. ive thought about this subject a lot and having a small-boost setup. nothing crazy ya know. but stupid OBD II...
 

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Stringz of Death
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2,481 Posts
lil_z_33 said:
sorry soc....but for boost you dont need either stock or aftermarket header/manifold...you need to get a turbo manifold...
normally you do, but Shawn was talking about adapting the turbo to a stock manifold...which is possible. turbo manifold would be best, of course though.
 

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AIM: BaseballtoHeart
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362 Posts
So would this be a COMPLETE list of things to go from a stock engine to a basic turbo set-up.....

Walbro 255 Intank
MSD 50lbs
Jim Wolf Rail
Vortech FMU
Upgraded lines
370cc SR20det injectors'
Tial 35mm wastegate w/ 6or8psi spring
T3/T4 Turbo
Greddy BOV
Apexi Intercooler
2.5" Intercooler Piping
Turbo Manifold
Oil drain connections and lines
3" Turbo-Back piping
8" long open dump tube on wastegate
NGK plugs
Apexi Turbo timer and SAFCII

All that for around 6psi Street and 8-10psi track??
Is that right or is there more/less things for a basic setup on stock internals
 

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phi phi Kappa Alpha
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3,033 Posts
Okay well it look like you just copied the list from that website that sells sketchy KA turbo kits.

You don't need the Walbro, but it is recommended. If you do get it though make sure you get a FPR too. I don't know why you have MSD 50lb injectors and 370cc SR20 ones. But you only need the 370s (purple top, also came in 300zx's too). You don't need the fuel rail for stage I but if you get the pump, FPR, you might as well get the rail too. You don't need the votech FMU, get a JWT ECU (erynn is running stock ecu and SAFC-II, but the general consensus I believe would be to go with JWT). You don't need upgraded fuel lines. Get a TiAl 38mm wastegate and 7.25 (.5bar) spring is fine. I would get a ball bearing T3/T4. HKS, Greddy type S are both good BOVs. You can get any intercooler you want. I have 2.25'' piping out of the turbo into my IC and 2.5'' from the IC to the TB, so does almost everyone else here. You need a manifold, turbonetics or revhard. You need an oil feed and return line, make sure they are SSbraided lines. Also get braided lines for your WG. You can dump your wastegate, it will give you more power, faster spool up, but it will be LOUD, or you can just circulate into your exhaust. NGK 6 or 7 series plugs (I have had great sucess with 6's but others need 7's). A turbo timer is pretty much a must, I like my Greddy.

Next time search because all this information is available. You think you will run 6psi or whatever on the street, I try and keep mine at 8 but find myself hitting the high boost button and driving at 10 all the time. You will need a Boost controller to boost over the wastegate spring. You need to do a little more research then copying a list and pasting it into a thread.
 

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588 Posts
I am preparing a bunch of internals from KA24DE.com (Forged pistons, nitrided valves, valve retainers and springs, rods, etc) to get ready for some nice boost, Fuel Pressure Pumps and a New Walboro Fuel Pump also, I got a kit with injectors bov wg turbo manifold fuel rail intercooler oil cooler transmission cooler all the goodies plus the gaskets and off sets, safcII, boost controller, turbo timer, some port and polish.. all the good stuff, I was informed about 16-20lbs. Gonna cost a pretty shiny penny!

Edit: I gotta install the MT first and upgrades.. blergh!
 
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