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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's pics of the Zcar's engine in and out of the car. I hylighted a couple things I found noteworthy. Now I'm no expert, but this looks like a true dual exhaust, and a factory cold air intake... run strait to the front of the car. The guys at Stillen said they thought the intake/exhaust combo would be the main difference between the Z and Altima, and of course the ECU... So perhaps when the Z comes out in August, we will be able to upgrade a few things with factory parts, and get the 280 HP that the Z car boasts... it is the same engine after all.
 

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Same engine, def different compression ratio, and bigger everything. Our cars have the ability to run the same hp/torque as the 350z, we just need to swap or upgrade a few of our parts.
 

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There could be a whole host of things different about these two engines. If you have two engines of the same basic design (same long block, same basic heads, etc.) but they produce different horsepower and torque figures, they are said to be in "different states of tune". The word "tune" here has nothing to do with spark plugs or such. It refers to the internal and external components which make "same" engines different.

With the Z engine, you could have larger intake and exhaust valves, higher mechanical compression, different shaped piston domes, ported and polished intake and exhaust ports, higher lift and longer duration cams, different exhaust headers and head pipes, and so on. These differences could easily account for large variations in power output.

So you see, the "same" appearing engines could be radically different internally which means that borrowing some external components from the Z is not necessarily going to give the Altima engine the same performance as the Z engine. In fact, it could hurt its performance because component compatibility could be adversely affected.


PVick
2002 Alty SE
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214CID V6
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Well just burst my bubble!!!

pvick said:
So you see, the "same" appearing engines could be radically different internally which means that borrowing some external components from the Z is not necessarily going to give the Altima engine the same performance as the Z engine. In fact, it could hurt its performance because component compatibility could be adversely affected.
I think that a good set of headers, a dual inlet intake and a supercharger combined with the ECU programed to work it all would get this thing in the 280 to 300HP range but strapping on parts from faster cars would likely have the result that pvick is talking about.
 

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To Rocket67, to do what you suggested, supercharging, headers, reprogrammed ECU (assuming such software is available for this), would most definitely give serious gains in power production to the Altima engine. I was referring to just taking a few parts and swapping them out, as you had noted.

To Scottlny, a duel exhaust system refers to an exhaust conduit for each engine bank, single to itself, all the way to its final exit. The Altima does not have duel exhaust.. it has a single exhaust system which splits shortly after having exited the resonator, into two separate routes to the mufflers and final exit. Duel exhaust systems are a little more expensive and complex to produce than singles. Also you may want to note that the single portion of the exhaust on the Altima travels within a designed-in path or tunnel under the body. Uni-body cars are more difficult to design pathways for duel exhausts, but there are some that do this anyway. Mustangs come to mind right away.

To OhTwoAltima. While there is a very excellent chance the heads of the two engines in question will bolt up, they may not match up. For example, if there is an increase in the compression ratio and this was accomplished by milling the heads of the Z engine, you could run into problems if the Altima pistons do no have valve reliefs cut into them and they are already really close to the valve faces at TDC. Also, if you change out the heads, you probably would want to change the intake system as well because the plenum may not have the same size ports as those on the Z heads. This happened with the 302CID engine in the '87 Mustangs. In '88, Ford fixed the problem by installing their truck heads.

Matched components, my friends, are the key to engine building, performance, drivability, and longevity.

One question I would have. Most all auto companies supply mass air ECUs instead of speed density nowadays. The major advantage to mass air is its ability to adjust to a multitude of conditions and changing situations and environments. So I wonder how flexible the Nissan ECU in the Altima is to adjust to engine mods beyond a certain acceptable point?


PVick
2002 Alty SE
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214CID V6
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
pvick said:
One question I would have. Most all auto companies supply mass air ECUs instead of speed density nowadays. The major advantage to mass air is its ability to adjust to a multitude of conditions and changing situations and environments. So I wonder how flexible the Nissan ECU in the Altima is to adjust to engine mods beyond a certain acceptable point?

This is great information PVick. Like I said, I'm no pro, but I am getting the concepts. As complex as this sounds, I may need to be happy with what I have, and then trade for a z when the hard-top convertible comes availble next year. BTW- One of the guys at Nissan said that when the Z car is released in the states, some representatives from Nismo will come to the states with new stuff for both the Z car and the Altima. He mentioned an ECU upgrade for the Altima. Of course, I don't know this guy well, so I don't know how reliability of his information.
 

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scottlny said:



Define true dual exhaust. Are you saying the Altima 3.5 does not have that, and if so why not? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to learn.. Thanks..
Dual exhaust consists of two pipes running donw the whole car with seperate Catalytic converters, resonators, mufflers, and I'm sure other stuff.

I believe the 3.5 V6 seperates into duals just before the mufflers. It just has dual exhaust tips, as opposed to dual muffler tips (ex. Maxima), and a true dual exhaust (ex. Lincoln LS).

There are really no big advantage in power to the 3.5 V6 setup, just for looks. If anything, if could or cannot be more restrictive than the Variable Capacity Muffler.
 

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Regardless of how much work/$$ it takes. If the 350Z can make 280HP with the same engine. Anyone who wants to balance & blueprint and chage cams etc....etc....... Will be able to get close to the same amount of hp from a 3.5 Alty. It will cost some money but it is certainly possible. With the 350Z available it will make it easier to do. The 350Z will be a great reference point for tuning your engine if you desire 280HP.
 

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This is a bit off-topic, but...

Pvick says that a true dual exhaust involves having an exhaust conduit for each bank of cylinders. My question is, what about cars with only one bank of cylinders, such as an inline-4 or inline-6? In those cases, is there a possibility of having true dual exhausts?

I'm thinking in particular of cars like the S2000 and M3. Are the dual exhausts on those cars just for show (like ours)?
 

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To JRC;

Yep. With enough money, time, and inclination, you could do just about anything. And getting 280 - 300 horsepower out of a 214CID engine, while keeping it streetable, is not difficult anymore at all.

PVick
2002 Alty SE
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214CID V6
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To Afty;

Duel exhaust on a single bank of cylinders (inline 4 or 6) is mostly for show, with one exception.

If the engine is in a very high state of tune and capable of very high RPMs, the manufacturer will find that splitting the exhaust at the headers or head pipe and feeding it through two cats, resonators, and mufflers will support the higher RPM capability of the engine by allowing the gases to flow. The new M3 is a good example here because it is capable of 8000+ RPM operation.

PVick
2002 Alty SE
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214CID V6
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
pvick said:
To JRC;

Yep. With enough money, time, and inclination, you could do just about anything. And getting 280 - 300 horsepower out of a 214CID engine, while keeping it streetable, is not difficult anymore at all.

Are you saying it will be easy? Maybe for an auto Guru like you but for me... I had a dream last night that I changed 1 spark plug and blew up one of my cylinders. That probably can't even happen, but I guess I'm a little affraid to do anything mechanically anymore. I was actually confident when I first started contemplating certain upgrades, but now that I am realizing how involved some of this stuff is, I've got a lot to learn.
 

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BoogieBoo;

No sir. I'm not saying it would be easy at all and I can assure you, I'm no auto guru. I know a bit and have been around and loved cars for a long time. But I've never torn down, rebuilt, and re-installed an engine.

Don't feel so bad about working on modern cars. Believe me, they are SO much more complex than cars were when I was a kid. The engines have not changed all that much for the most part. I mean an internal combustion engine is still a pump of a sort. What has changed so drastically and made things so complicated for mods are the external components; ECUs, OX and ambient temperature and knock sensors, cats, and so on and so on. We never had any of that when I was a kid. Hell, I can still recall draft tubes on cars, the precursor to PCVs. I can tell you, most likely the only modifications I will probably be making to my Altima SE will be an intake system (maybe FrankenCar), and a partial change to the exhaust (Stillen mufflers, smooth out the smushed pipe). The rest of it is too complex to mess with. Plus you have to worry about the EPA and were I live in Virginia, we have to have our cars checked every two years for emissions. To much problem any more it seems.


PVick
2002 Alty SE
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214CID V6
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